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Transcript and audio link - ABC Radio National Breakfast

Friday 28th May 2010

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Subjects: The Coalition’s policy for restoring sovereignty and control to Australia’s borders.

EandOE

FRAN KELLY:

Scott Morrison, welcome to Breakfast.

SCOTT MORRISON:

Good morning, Fran.

FRAN KELLY:

Now, Scott Morrison, already we read in one newspaper today that Indonesia has rejected your Pacific solution, saying it won’t work; the idea hasn’t been well received in the region in the past. Without Indonesia on board you can’t stop the boats, can you?

SCOTT MORRISON:

Well, I think one of the reasons why the Indonesians have such a difficulty with Australia at the moment is the level of resolve being shown by our own Government to take matters into their…

FRAN KELLY:

Well, they were responding to your policy.

SCOTT MORRISON:

I’ll just finish that answer. One of the reasons they’ve got this problem is because this Government hasn’t shown the resolve to address the situations on our side of the fence and the policies we announced yesterday were all about addressing the issues on our side of the fence, the pull factors that have led since TPVs were abolished to 6,000 people turning up and 128 boats. That’s why we’re having this discussion.

FRAN KELLY:

Tony Abbott said yesterday we’ll turn back the boats. Do you mean you’re policies will discourage smuggling or that if the boats come you will literally turn them around with the Navy’s help?

SCOTT MORRISON:

Well, as we said yesterday, and in fact as the Prime Minister said he would before the last election, we have said where the circumstances allow… we went into a bit more detail about those circumstances yesterday, that we would pursue that and we would do that. But these circumstances I couldn’t say are commonplace. That’s why you need to have a suite of measures. There’s no just one measure. It’s not just TPVs, it’s not just offshore processing, it’s not just turning the boats back, it’s all of these in concert with the things we’ve already said about supporting regional cooperation and international measures. You’ve got to do all of them. but we wouldn’t be having this conversation, and I think Michelle was right when she said, the reason these ideas are being contemplated again is because the boats have come again and because the border protections of the Government have failed. That’s why we’re having the conversation.

FRAN KELLY:

Yeah, but you can’t promise that the boats will stop, can you?

SCOTT MORRISON:

Well, of course, you know, Fran, we’ll reintroduce measures that worked last time and that’s the guarantee that we have, the guarantee of our record and our performance in government. This Government has no record on this issue, they have certainly no answer. They’ve only created problems and, as I say, that’s why we are now in this situation and, as Alexander Downer said yesterday, that’s why we’re in the position of having to, you know, re-introduce these types of measures.

FRAN KELLY:

You know, you keep saying they worked last time. There’s plenty evidence, people keep this in reply, temporary protection visas didn’t work last time. They were introduced in 1999. There were 3,721 people arrived then and then 2001 there were 5,516 who arrived. No deterrence there obviously.

SCOTT MORRISON:

Well, Fran, it’s never one measure. That’s what I just said and when all the measures culminate together that’s when we brought the boats down to an average of three per year for six years. But, equally Fran, on your logic, on the basis of TPVs being abolished we’ve had 6,000 people turn up since. So…

FRAN KELLY:

Which just goes to show that perhaps it’s about people movement rather than measures here.

SCOTT MORRISON:

Well, no, what actually happened in August of 2008 is we saw things turn around completely and it wasn’t just that one decision, Fran, it was a series of decisions that rolled back a series of measures, people being transferred to the mainland, the absolute bungling of the Oceanic Viking issue by this Government. So, it’s a series of failed policies and flawed decisions and a lack resolve that’s led to the problem we’re in. Now, we want to turn that around. This is not unlike the debt issue. All the hard decisions we had to take in Government have been undone by this Government and we find ourselves back in exactly the same situation.

FRAN KELLY:

Some of the decisions you took in Government have, were pretty hard line. There’s been plenty of evidence, for instance, that measures like the Pacific Solution, putting people on Nauru and Manus Island and temporary protection visas caused psychological trauma to detainees. We spoke earlier on the program to refugee lawyer, David Mann. Let’s have a listen.

David Mann: The extremely damaging effects of temporary protection visas and offshore processing policies have been known and well documented for years and the Opposition’s proposals represent its decision to re-introduce policies which they know cause pain and suffering to vulnerable people, including women, children and families.

FRAN KELLY:

Policies that cause pain and suffering to women and children. You must have seen these studies and the damage done to some detainees because of the policies. Do you not care?

SCOTT MORRISON:

Yesterday and the day before in Senate Estimates, we were talking about a situation in which a sense has largely been confirmed about a boat that left Indonesia last October, over a hundred people on it, Fran. We’ve never seen it again. People are dying on boats. In the six years before this government abolished temporary protection visas…

FRAN KELLY:

People died on boats after TPVs. Look at the SIEV X.

SCOTT MORRISON:

Let me finish. There were 305 people turned up in boats over six years. Now since then, we’ve had almost 6,000. When we left government, there were 21 children in alternative detention. Today there are 386. So you can’t tell me these policies that this government has pursued have been in favour of discouraging people getting on boats and risking their lives. That’s what’s happening. It needs to stop.

FRAN KELLY:

That practise of people getting on boats and risking their lives does need to stop but the point is the policies we put in place here, there is plenty of evidence to show that they psychologically damage people – very, very horrible psychological damage. You must be aware of that.

SCOTT MORRISON:

Well Fran, these are difficult decisions and what we would endeavour to do as we did in government and the lessons we learnt in 2006 when we introduced changes to the way detention policy was managed. These are lessons that can be applied into the future with our policies in government again. So, I don’t think you can leap to the conclusion that by seeking to place people in a detention facility off shore that that in any way would be any worse for people in detention and what the government is proposing putting them in Derby and this government’s policy on temporary protection visas is hypocritical because they’ve had this asylum freeze which discriminates against a person’s nationality and puts people in an unending round of detention purely because they are of a certain nationality. Now, we’ve said we will abolish that policy Fran and we think that’s the right and humane thing to do.

FRAN KELLY:

Scott Morrison I’m sure we will be speaking about this more between now and the election. Thank you very much for joining us.

SCOTT MORRISON:

Thanks, Fran.

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