Interview with Alan Jones
20 March 2020
ALAN JONES: PM, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Alan.
JONES: And thank you as well for everything you're doing. I don't think anyone in your position in recent times has had these sorts of demands. It's difficult stuff. You said last Sunday, the truth is that while many people will contract this virus it is clear that, just as people get the flu each year and this is a more severe condition than the flu, but for the vast majority, around eight in 10 is our advice, it will be a mild illness and it will pass. Is that still the advice?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, it is and that’s the experience of people who are going through this virus now and there will obviously have a lot more Australians now are going through the virus and that's still exactly what's occurring. And so for the more healthy amongst us, when we do the right thing and with all the rules that are being put in place, life has to change for some period of time, that is protecting the most vulnerable in the community, the elderly in particular but all those who might be undergoing chemo or things like that, they're a lot of people with immunosuppressed situations and we're helping them, we're protecting them.
JONES: Good on you. You're closing the border to all non-citizens and non-residents and you have said quote, “Our Government has taken this unprecedented step because around 80 per cent of coronavirus cases in Australia are people who caught the virus overseas before entering Australia or people who have had direct contact with someone who's returned from overseas.” Do you think perhaps in hindsight you should have done that earlier?
PRIME MINISTER: No, we were acting on advice on those things too, Alan. I mean, these are always balanced decisions and we're able to slow the viruses at the start as it spread in Australia through these early periods. I mean, the country which has actually been responsible for a large number of these has actually turned out to be the United States, at the end of the day. But that is a function of the number of people that travel between Australia and the United States as well. This virus has spread to more and more countries. I mean, Australia called the global pandemic more than two weeks ahead of the World Health Organisation. I remember the press conference I gave at the end of the parliamentary sitting day and I was saying we now need to prepare for a pandemic and at the time I think people thought I was being a bit alarmist. Well, not at all. The plans we started putting our place and those plans ultimately took us to where we are today.
JONES: No, you’re doing a good job, absolutely. Look, a tough one here and I'm getting a stack of correspondence about this and the sorts of things that I suppose are too delicate and sensitive to raise but it is about China and people are saying, well, hang on, China brought this disaster on to what is now the world economy. China will never be able to compensate the world, but how do the world's leaders make sure China does not now come in and buy assets at a huge discount? Should we have - I’m asking you as Prime Minister of Australia - a global policy excluding China from bidding now for devalued assets around the world?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Alan, Australia will make decisions for Australia and the foreign investment review arrangements are the same as they were yesterday and the Treasurer, ultimately, will have those calls about any investments that are made in Australia. But, I mean, those decisions are made in Australia's national interests and I don’t think there’s any suggestion that any country, including China, has deliberately done something here. I mean, this is a global, this is a virus that the originated In Wuhan, China and it has gone around the world and it's had a devastating impact and I'm not aware of any of that practice that's happening in Australia, Alan. I’m sure the Treasurer will be watching it closely.
JONES: Good on you. We’ll be talking to the Treasurer on Monday, by the way, to our listeners out there. You’ve asked all businesses to do their bit to keep people in jobs, as I keep calling it the trifecta. You've already mentioned one, you’re going to look after the health of the vulnerable. Secondly, keep business in business and keeping people who still have jobs at work. The airlines have been given $715 million immediately. Now, I don't know whether you're aware but Qantas aren’t using that money to help people pay their mortgages and support their families. These people have been stood down on leave and they've been told that they can take the leave to which they are now entitled or they can take long service leave or they can take their annual leave and if they don't have any leave, they'll be given four weeks pay. Now, when people are stood down on leave if this goes on they may well be unemployed in no time and the worker seems to be underwriting the company. Did you give that money for the benefit of shareholders or for the benefit of employees?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, let's go through what we did. What we did is we waved aviation fees and we did it for all airlines, whether it was Virgin or REX Airlines or Qantas or any other. We’re just not going to charge aviation fees. Now, it's not immediate either, by the way, there is a partial backdate til the first of February but that was going forward. Now, with Qantas actually not flying anywhere effectively at all overseas and with their domestic fleet also not flying anywhere like they were before, I mean, a lot of those fees would be moot because they wouldn’t be paying them now anyway because they're not flying anywhere. So, it's a lot less than that. The second point is, Alan, I mean, these are difficult decisions. I mean, there are 10,000 employees still at Qantas each and every day, all the commitments of keeping a large airline like that running every day is also big. Now, obviously, I’m very concerned about the 20,000 who have had to stand down. I'm pleased that so many are in a position where they can access those sort of leave arrangements to keep them going and on the other side of that, obviously the government is working very hard to put in a new arrangement to cushion the blow more for anyone who's going and find themselves out of work. I'm sure that…
JONES: But don't you understand, and I’m sorry to interrupt you, but you’ve got to understand, don’t you, that if people take leave and use their own leave entitled, their only employees or their long service leave or their annual leave, they are effectively looking after themselves with what is their entitlement. The $715 million, none of that they see.
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, again, it's not $715 million that Qantas is seeing, I think it's going to be nothing like that that the whole industry sees because it's aviation fees they won't be paying anyway, that's just an accounting arrangement as to what the normal level of fees thereabouts would have been. But I mean, that that money is going to help the aviation industry just keep alive. I mean, these are companies that will have not a lot to do in terms of what their business is going to be. But people can access leave at the moment, well, these are extraordinary times. I mean companies are going to go through incredibly difficult times over the next six months, we're going to help them as much as we can and help them keep in jobs wherever we can, where people can access those arrangements what we want them to be able to do is at the end of this which could be six months or seven or eight months, we want to stand these organizations up again, we don't want people to leave these organisations and my understanding is what Qantas is doing, they’re saying people will leave the organisation but stay connected to it so on the other side, they'll be able to stand up again when the airline is going again and off we go again and that's what we, we're looking for companies and employees and employers to work together to see how they can best arrange, as I said, we are on this bridge, to get from where we are now, to the other side.
JONES: Yeah I know, everyone understands it.
PRIME MINISTER: I know it's tough, I know it's tough. And people are having to draw into their leave but these are extraordinary times and we need to use every resource, our own in the government, no one is holding back here, I mean this is a- they’ve got 10,000 people they're still employing Alan.
JONES: Right. Now yesterday you you made this announcement and we won't go into the detail of it and I've just covered it in the programme, about a hundred billion dollars to the banks and basically the principal there’s okay, there'll be more money available to the banks to assist small businesses you made that point and the, it will be cheaper than otherwise would be the case however you do- would understand would you not, that you can't pump prime the economy which you’re simultaneously shutting down for example, these loans are no good to someone if there is no business and I just take one example, if I might, of correspondence I have received, just take for example a wedding, the stylist, a person who runs weddings now I've got letters from people they employ, you know over a hundred people and basically this involves florists and stylists and prop hires and sending out invitations, wedding dresses and suits. But when you then restrict the crowd at the wedding to 100 people most venues are closing so a cheap loans not going to help them there is no business.
PRIME MINISTER: No I understand that Alan and what I mean through a crisis like this people will still have rent, they'll still have a range of fixed commitments and things that they're gonna seek to try and meet because they know on the other side they're gonna need all of these things they'll have lease payments and there'll be a whole range of things and so what this means is it’s keeping the banks in the position where they will be able to continue to lean forward to support businesses where they’re seeking that support and we're working on a range of other measures that will synchronize with this we've been working very closely with reserve bank over the course of many weeks now but particularly most recently and so what you want is in a crisis like this you want the banks to be able to keep extending credit where there are those who are seeking it and to be able to do it on very very good terms. Now Josh has been working with the banks very closely especially over the last couple of weeks, we're working on a package together with them he indicated that yesterday. I think we're getting very close there, very very close,
JONES: Yes I saw though you were working on a package, when will that package, when will you be, that’s the second tranche?
PRIME MINISTER: Well no there’s the second tranche of what we're announcing in terms of what the government is doing but the work we're doing with the banks, see Alan the government isn’t just the economy as you know, it's the private economy, there’s the government, everyone is working together and Josh has been doing a great job working with the banks to see what we can do to help people with their existing commitments and so this is all happening each and every day.
JONES: Well just to take your language, sorry to interrupt you, if I could just get you to clarify the point you made yesterday, you said we'll have more to say about the broader measures that we want to put in place to cushion the blow and to support small business and to support individuals directly impacted by the coronavirus economic impacts so could you just amplify a bit about supporting the individuals because they are on the bare bones of their backside?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah income support, what, that's exactly what we're looking at. At the existing range of income support measures and particularly for those who would find themselves no longer in employment or have reduced hours of employment or sole traders in particular who find themselves where they had a business which was keeping them employed through their own efforts and looking at particularly their situation as well, but we're still working on the final details back of that.
JONES: Well on that, PM on that issue now for example, you already, not you- previous governments way back to Paul Keating underwrite university education, we don't deny education to people on the base of the fact their parents can't afford it and currently that will HECS debt of HELP debt is about $66 Billion dollars, it's paid when the graduate gets to about $45,000 so it's paid back, why not a business HECS, if a business made applications and said well look $40 grand, will keep us going, will keep my business going, will keep my employees in employment, why wouldn't you then do exactly to business what you're doing to university students?
PRIME MINISTER: Well Alan, what I can tell you is that what we're working on with the banks I can, I'm very confident we are going to be able to get a situation where we're achieving the same objective.
JONES: Righto, on travel, it's another issue isn’t it. I mean tours can't go ahead, people are not traveling, some people want their money back, smaller tour companies are going broke, they’ve had tours booked all over the world, customers want refunds, what you say to the travel industry, Flight Centre’s closing 100 stores?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah I noticed they did that fairly quickly too and there'll be businesses that make decisions Alan and some of them may have had issues before this hit, I don't know whether that was the case with Flight Centre or not but they did seem to move very quickly on those things, but putting that to one side, look the travel industry has been terribly hit and that's why the government it will be moving to having a much much bigger package of support to cushion the blow for the many of those who are employees in those, working in those travel agents and you know, we all know people who work in that industry and the travel industries and pick the, right up the coast, and right across the country, and that's why there's a billion dollar fund which the Minister of Tourism, and and the Minister for Industry as well and others are working to see how that that support can be delivered but Alan this is this is a global coronavirus. This is what happens.
JONES: People understand that. I mean, we all know you've got a tough job we all know it's tough so we do appreciate the fact that so,
PRIME MINISTER: And I appreciate that. So we're providing support as broadly and and deeply as we possibly can to help people get through what will be certainly the next six months and if it's longer than that, then it'll be longer than that but you know,
JONES: PM though, why would a hundred people in a restaurant be a greater risk than a hundred people in a train carriage?
PRIME MINISTER: Well there's two issues here, first of all people being on a train carriage going to work to work at a hospital or get to where they need to keep the country functioning is essential. Absolutely essential that we keep doing those things. There are other activities that in times like this are not essential, and they're very important I have no doubt, someone's big day or wedding it's important. I understand that.
JONES: But are you going to cap, are you going to cap this? There is a story today that you’ve got a meeting today to cap one person per four square meters for indoor gatherings, which has been recommended to you which I understand is going to the National Cabinet today. So that could mean a one hundred square metre venue would be restricted to 25 people- you'd go broke?
PRIME MINISTER: Well Alan the National Cabinet will meet today and I'm not going to go into what they are or aren’t.
JONES: No I don’t expect you to,
PRIME MINISTER: Discussing, because they're the rules of the National Cabinet but what we are doing and what the health advice is, is to practice this social distancing, and when people are in closer contact particularly enclosed spaces that spreads the virus. We spread the virus, if that happens too quickly then elderly people are under great threat, and so there's no doubt that having to impose this social distancing, what that's actually, travel bans of people coming in, or people in venues, or in outdoor gatherings, we have to slow the virus and that means there are circumstances where we'll have to restrict the number of people that are in enclosed space. It’s what you have to do to save lives.
JONES: Okay we're very grateful, this communication is really important to the people out there grateful for what you're doing. We'll talk again next week.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks a lot Alan.
