Interview with Deborah Knight, A Current Affair
19 August 2021
DEBORAH KNIGHT: Well, Prime Minister, welcome. It’s a big milestone - half of all eligible Australians with a first vaccine dose, more than 16 million jabs all up. It’s good to have some good news to deliver with COVID, that’s for sure. But you must regret saying back in March that it’s not a race, because it’s the race of our lives, isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's not how you start the race, it’s how you finish it. And we're finishing very, very well. I mean we, as you just said, over 300,000 doses in one day. That's three times the size of the MCG in just one day. And you're right, there are more people now eligible for the vaccine who’ve had their first dose than haven't had their first dose. You know, it's over 200 doses a minute now. And this is a vaccination program that is really hitting its marks. And I want to thank everybody for coming out there and getting those vaccines. Thank the Polish Government, of course, for the extra doses I was able to secure and bring in that are out there in all parts of south western Sydney right now, making a big difference to those 20 to 39-year-olds who are very important in containing that outbreak in Sydney and stopping that spread.
KNIGHT: And with the vaccinations also being made available for all 16 to 39-year-olds from August 30, that’s 8.6 million Australians. Do we have enough of the Pfizer to go around?
PRIME MINISTER: Well it's not just Pfizer. There’s, there’s the AstraZeneca vaccine, there's the Pfizer vaccine, and starting next month, there's also the Moderna vaccine, and the Moderna vaccine, which is like the Pfizer vaccine, that starts next month. There's a million doses at least there next month. And that'll be done all through the pharmacies. We now have over, we have around 2,500 pharmacies now that are part of this vaccination program. Thousands and thousands of GPs. The vast majority of the vaccines that are being administered in Australia are being done by our GPs and our pharmacies. Sure, there's plenty being done at those big state hubs, but actually in New South Wales, for every three doses, two of them are being delivered by the GPs and the pharmacists. So they're doing a great job as well.
KNIGHT: Yeah, it’s good to see them rolling it out. Are you concerned, though, because of the, I guess, the the confusion around AstraZeneca, that by opening up Pfizer to younger Australians we might see some people cancel their AstraZeneca bookings, particularly in those COVID hotspot suburbs where, as we know, it’s so crucial to get jabs in arms urgently, today?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the most important vaccine you can get is the vaccine you can get today, and those vaccines are available today. There is a, we've already put in over 500,000 additional Pfizer vaccines actually into those hotspot areas, as you know, through those additional doses we got out of Europe. And that's what you can see in those big state hubs and, where people are turning up to, particularly today over the days ahead. But right across all those vaccines, they’re all effective. They all do the job that they need to do, and that is stop you getting it as much as possible, stop you transmitting it, stop you from getting a very serious illness and indeed stopping you from being hospitalised. And the worst extreme, a fatality. So all of those vaccines do the job. So my encouragement is to everybody, get the vaccine available today. Of course, there are more vaccines coming down the line, but, you know, there’ll obviously be waits for those as well, but the vaccine you can get today is the vaccine you should get.
KNIGHT: And what about younger children, because we are seeing a lot of kids in child care and of primary school age contracting Delta. In fact, almost 750 kids under the age of nine contracted it in New South Wales in the last two weeks alone. When can we protect children of all ages?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there are no vaccines that are available that are authorised for use for children under the age of 12. We do have the Pfizer vaccine, which is approved for children ages between 12 and 15. Right now, that's been authorised to be used for those who, that have other type of health conditions, as well as those Indigenous children and those in remote communities. I’m waiting ...
KNIGHT: When will it be opened up to everyone?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’re waiting on that next set of advice from our immunisation experts who advise us. Australia has one of the most high, highest immunisation rates in the world amongst children. And the reason for that is we've got a very reliable and trusted system for approving those vaccines. So once the medical advice enables us to go to that next level, then we'll do that. But the other advice, Deb, I want to stress is this. The advice we got from the Doherty Institute, the Institute, one of the best in the world that can advise on these issues, says that the best way for your child to avoid getting the virus is to ensure that you are vaccinated. And that's why it's so important that we're vaccinating those in those younger age groups now, the parents age groups, and to ensure that they're vaccinated because they are most likely to contract that virus from an adult in a household. And that's why continuing the focus on vaccinating those populations is so important to protect both children, as well as the rest of the population.
KNIGHT: So, we’ve got vaccination rates rising, which is wonderful news, but so too are infections, and we’ve had the worst day so far of case numbers in New South Wales - 681. Infections have doubled in Victoria and Canberra is also teetering with their numbers. Do we need to start accepting that higher case numbers are the normal, and even daily death rates?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you only need to look overseas, I mean, you've got tens of thousands of new cases every day over in the United Kingdom and over 100 fatalities a day, and we're seeing a thousand deaths a day over in the United States ...
KNIGHT: So, is that our new normal?
PRIME MINISTER: So the Delta, no I'm saying the Delta variant of the COVID virus is a highly infectious one. And that has completely changed the game, particularly in these last few months. In places, I mean, previously, New South Wales is a good example where previously before the Delta strain, we were able to contain it and not have lockdowns, the Delta strain overwhelms that. And it's not just in Australia. It's happening in Singapore. It's happening in Europe. It's happening in the UK, United States. And that's not a criticism of any of those countries - countries with higher vaccination rates, lower vaccination rates, it's having its way. Our goal is to get to the point where we can live with this COVID-19, just like we do with the flu. Now, of course, with the flu each year, people do get ill and we know that. But when you get to 80 per cent vaccination, the advice we have received is that's when you start seeing the COVID-19, with some basic protections in the community, operating a lot like the flu, and the national plan that we've agreed is about making that transformation, Deb. So going from not the number of cases is what matters, but how many how many serious cases there’ve been and how many hospitalisations. And that's what you need to focus on going forward. And that's what the national plan provides for. But to achieve that, we've a) got to get to 70 per cent and then b) we’ve got to get to 80 per cent and we're in that space, then that's when, particularly if you're vaccinated, there will be opportunity to go and have those household gatherings, the barbecues, going out for coffees, doing all those things. That's what we're working towards. That's why we're working so hard.
KNIGHT: And even with that 80 per cent target, though, we’ve had all state and territory leaders agree at National Cabinet to reach that target. But you’ve got WA and the ACT among states who are going it alone with their own vaccine targets, and even with the border shutdown message. Can you guarantee that freedom will come when we get that 80 per cent level?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, all the states and territories have agreed to those 70 and 80 per cent targets, and there's a good reason for that, because when you reach those levels, with some basic protections in the community, then you can manage COVID-19 in the community, focusing on, as I said, serious illness hospitalisations, things like that. Now that commitment is made by all the states and territories. And when, you know, in your own state, if there's seven, eight out of 10 people who’ve been vaccinated who are less of a risk to themselves of contracting the virus, of transmitting it, getting a serious illness, all of these things, they've done the right thing, they've adhered by the lockdowns, they've done all the hard work, well, when they get to that level, it's a very reasonable expectation that their leaders will follow through on the commitments they’ve made.
KNIGHT: But you’ve got Mark McGowan in WA, the Premier, saying that he will potentially keep the borders shut. Does he need to pull his head in?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, let's just see what happens, okay. I mean, we're not at those marks yet, and Western Australia has has some work to do to get up to the levels of the other states, and we'll support them to do that …
KNIGHT: They’re dragging the rest of the country, aren’t they?
PRIME MINISTER: … And we'll all work together, we'll work together to get the whole country vaccinated, just not parts of it. And that's why when we got those extra doses from overseas, of course I sent 530,000 to deal with the really acute problem that we had in Sydney. And that's what I spoke to the Polish Prime Minister about, Prime Minister Morawiecki, and that's great. But the balance of them, the other half a million, well, that was spread across all the states because I need to get the whole country vaccinated, not just parts of it.
KNIGHT: And do you think that we could have more deals like the deal that you secured with Poland in the wind? What else have you been cooking up?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've been working on a lot of things, as you could imagine, leaving no stone unturned there, but when I'm in a position to announce anything further then I will, but we'll, we're working at it every single day. But let's also know that in September, we've already got those Moderna doses coming. In October, we've also got far more Pfizer and the other doses available. It really ramps up now over the next few months. But we're already achieving rates, as I said, three times the number of people you could put in the MCG vaccinated in one day. That's what we've achieved today. Now, that's an extraordinary outcome. We're already achieving higher rates than we expected to achieve now. And that's because of the great response we've had from Australians. They're doing the right thing. The overwhelming majority, if they're in Sydney, they're pushing through on this lockdown and these high vaccination rates, I hope it's just saying to people, look, let's keep going. We're getting there, each day we're getting closer.
KNIGHT: So do you still think families will be able to get together around the Christmas table, or with the case numbers the way they are, is it more realistic that we perhaps can have a family Easter egg hunt?
PRIME MINISTER: No, look, I'm very much looking forward to that and making sure we have everybody around that table too, by doing it in the safest way possible, and I I suspect and I hope that we can achieve it a lot more before then. But that, you know, just requires us all to keep doing what we have been doing, you know, stay home if you're in a lockdown area. I mean, vaccines really make a big difference. There's no question about that. But if you're in a lockdown, the lockdown also has to work. So we need to suppress and vaccinate right now. We get to the next stage, then those who have been vaccinated, well, of course, it only makes sense - they're less of a risk to themselves and others - and so they should be exempt from certain things that may continue to apply, because they've been vaccinated. They've taken the step to protect themselves and their community. And then we get to the next level where we can start really saying goodbye to those lockdowns, because at that level, at 80 per cent vaccination, the research shows very clearly that you can do a lot of things that you can't do now and you can do it safely and you can manage COVID in the community without having to have these terrible lockdowns, which cost so much. But we've been pleased to stand by people through these lockdowns as well. I mean, over $3 billion has already been paid to around 1.5 million Australians - these $750, $450 and $200 payments. It's helping people get through. The business support that is coming through the states, which we're meeting half the cost for, helping businesses get through. Once these lockdowns lift, our economy will come back and those jobs, they’ll be there.
KNIGHT: Let’s hope we get there sooner rather than later. Prime Minister, thanks for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Deb. Good to talk to you.
