Interview with Jim Wilson, 2GB
13 July 2021
JIM WILSON: Prime Minister, welcome back to Drive.
PRIME MINISTER: Hey Jimmy, good to be with you mate. Sorry it’s been a little while.
WILSON: It's OK, I know you've got a bit going on.
PRIME MINISTER: A little bit going on. Yeah.
WILSON: This is good. It's a really a proactive move that the federal and state governments working together and it's offering some assistance, some much needed assistance PM, to both individuals, households, but also business.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, well, that's exactly it. And as you say, working together, I mean, when the Premier called me last week, mid last week, we were already in the lockdown and we were putting in place the arrangements we had in the Victorian lockdown, the same there, New South Wales wasn't getting anything additional to Victoria. It was all the same. And I'm sure people would appreciate that. But clearly, this one was taking a different turn. And so we started working together immediately. And Josh Frydenberg and Dom Perrottet as well, and just working out what was the best way to provide support that would give people and give them the confidence to push through. Because at the end of the day, Jim, that's really what we want to say to people, let's push through and we're going to help you push through. And we know we can't completely replicate where you were before. And I don't think anyone expects that. But what they do, are looking for, I think, is just that encouragement, that help and to let people let them know that we get it hard and we're doing as much as we can to help you get through it, just like we did last year when we did JobKeeper and all of those things, people knew. We're going to get through this. And, you know, Sydney, we're going to get through this, too.
WILSON: And you said for as long as it takes, can we read into that, that this will obviously go to the extent of the lockdown? Could it go beyond that as well, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: That's not the intention and that's not what we've discussed. And I don't think there'd be the need for that, because I think once we get out of lockdown, you'll see the New South Wales economy roar back. I think you really will. I mean, before we went into this lockdown, I mean, the New South Wales economy was really the powerhouse. And frankly, even now, it shows enormous resilience. So this is why when I was asked today about, you know, employers and their employees, I mean, employers need their staff. They know they're going to need them in a few weeks time. They're not going to let them go anywhere if they can help it. And what this announcement does is it says, look, you know, they might not have the hours that they had for you, you know, a month ago. And so you can go to the Commonwealth Government and they'll provide you with that $600 a week, for as long as we're in this thing. But as soon as that's over, I want you back on, on the shop floor. I want you back at the venue. I want you back on the road.
WILSON: Do you think it goes far enough? We had a number of listeners who are small business owners saying it's not enough. What's your reaction to those, to that sort of feedback?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I can only go on what we did previously, which was enough when we were basically doing exactly what we did a year ago when we were in this situation. And the difference is rather than having to have staff, sorry and businesses pay JobKeeper to their employees, we're going to pay that direct. We're paying that. Whereas before what we did is we said to the businesses, you go and borrow some money, meet your payroll, and then we'll pay you, you know, that $600 payment for [inaudible]. What we're saying now is you don't need to borrow the money to pay your staff, if you've had to reduce their hours, we'll do that. And here on top of that is a payment of up to $10,000 a week. And for, to give you an example, I mean, if you're business with a turnover of, you know, around about a million bucks a year, you've likely got a payroll of about a quarter of a million bucks a year. And that means that your payroll on a weekly basis is just under five grand a year, five grand a week, I should say. Well, under this payment, you will be getting $1,923 a week. That's 40 per cent of what your current payroll would have been. Now, that's more than what we were doing when we did the cash flow, but it's about the same as what we did in the cash flow boost last year for that type of business.
But if you're a sole trader, Jim, and you know what we're paying you is a thousand bucks a week, okay, so that means that I know you're drawing your own wage from being a sole trader. And if that business is in trouble, then, you know, if you were an employee, you'd go off to the set up Services Australia and get your 600 bucks a week. Well, if you're a sole trade, we say we'll give you a thousand. So that's pretty much 600 for you and 400 to keep your business afloat over the next few weeks. And then when the restrictions lift you'll be able to get it going again. So I know that's a very long winded answer Jim, but the point is we've thought through this pretty deeply and we can't just sort of pay people, everybody, what they were getting before in revenue, because I don't think anyone expects that because the money's all got to come from somewhere and we know where it's coming from. We're having to borrow it just like the New South Wales Government. But we think this gives people that encouragement to just see it through and look, let's hope it's weeks and not longer than that. Remember in Victoria, it went a lot longer than that and we ended up spending in Victoria some almost $13 billion over the course of their lockdown as a Commonwealth. So I'm not anticipating that that's what we're going to see here. And with the way that the vaccination programme is really scaling up, that will also help.
WILSON: Just on the vaccination project, obviously getting more jabs in more arms is a priority. The current trend, where do you think will be by the end of the year? What will you be happy with as far as the percentage of the total population being fully vaccinated?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the percentage is going to be up to Australians. But what I know I think is that at the end of this year, I think we will have been able to offer a vaccine to everyone who wants one. So let's hope that that numbers, that percentages of people who actually take up that offer is as high as possible. But I think we've got to be real here. I mean, a lot's been said about the United Kingdom. First of all, the United Kingdom has pretty much vaccinated most of their population on AstraZeneca, including younger people. And secondly, they've only reached about 65 per cent, Jim. And there's only one other country in the world, just one that has been higher than that. And that's Israel. And it's not a particularly large country by Australian standards. So there's some sort of view running around the place that somehow there's a lot of countries out there at 80 per cent vaccination rate. There's not. There's only one that I'm aware of. And so, you know, we've had our difficulties at the start of this vaccination programme. And I know people have been critical. And I understand that. We had the problem of the supplies from overseas not coming in those first couple of months, and then we had the problems with AstraZeneca, where our medical expert panel advised against, well said the preferred vaccine for AstraZeneca was over 60 and that that hit the programme pretty hard. But we've been making up the ground. We're almost at a million doses being delivered a week. We keep that rate, we get it done. And we're only about two months behind from where we initially thought and hoped to be.
WILSON: But you must have a number in mind where you want us to be so we can avoid lockdowns, for example, in the UK, they're returning to some sort of normality, around about 50 per cent of the total population vaccinated. So where would you like to be …
PRIME MINISTER: We'll take that advice from the Doherty Institute. They're the best in the world on these things. They're doing some work for us right now on the new Delta strain. We'd already done some work on the Alpha strain and, but we're waiting on that. I will get that this month and that will really help inform that answer. We're about, as best as I can tell, Jim, we're one of a few countries in the world that are actually trying to base these decisions on that sort of advice. And, you know, while I know people are a bit frustrated at the moment, I get that, we're also the country withl one of the lowest death rates in the world from COVID. You know, we've saved, at least, we believe, 30,000 lives in Australia in the last 18 months. And if that means we might ultimately be just a couple of months behind where we might have been and we've saved 30,000 lives. Well, I know where I'd rather be.
WILSON: So far with the extra supplies of the Pfizer through the European Union, have you spoken to US President Joe Biden, or for example, the global head of Pfizer based out of the US directly, to get more supplies directly from the United States?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we've got more supplies out of Pfizer. And the way that that is managed is through our Australian CEO. And that's how it's done. And through that relationship, we've gone from our initial 10 million Pfizer doses. And when we know, when we could see what was happening back early in the year, we immediately were able to convert that to 20 million. And then when the AstraZeneca problem hit, we were immediately able to get that up to 40 million. And now we've been able to bring it forward to a million doses a week from the 19th of July. So that's the channel we work through and that's the channel that has actually delivered that.
WILSON: So you don't think it would have made any difference to pick up the phone to Joe Biden or the global head of Pfizer, for example? You don't think it would've made any difference as far as getting …
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I had a meeting with one of the most senior directors of global Pfizer when I was in Paris.
WILSON: And was he receptive, the fact of us getting extra supplies and backing us in?
PRIME MINISTER: They were all very aware of what we were putting forward. And those discussions always revealed that what has been put forward by Australia is well understood, and that's why we've been able to bring forward the doses. See, I mean, the proof of these things is in the eating. And that is when, you know, we sought the additional supplies to bring them forward, the bring forward of those supplies and that's what's happened.
WILSON: Are you happy with the outcome?
PRIME MINISTER: That's the outcome we wanted. We wanted a million doses a week and we've got it.
WILSON: Are you happy with the New South Wales Government for pushing 40 plus year olds to get the AstraZeneca vaccine?
PRIME MINISTER: I am pleased with what the Premier has said and she said basically what I was saying a couple of weeks ago, which there's a whole bunch of people who got into me about that, but it wasn't that, frankly, a controversial, so controversial a statement. I mean, the Therapeutic Goods Administration that licences these drugs for use in Australia licenced it for people above the age of 18 and the ATAGI, which is the technical advisory group on immunisations, they made a couple of decisions which said the preferred vaccine for those under, first 50 and under 60, was not AstraZeneca. But they didn't say, you can't take it. They didn't ban it. What they said was it's a preferred for you to have a different vaccine, but talk to your doctor. And, you know, since I said that a couple of weeks ago, there's been thousands and thousands of younger people who've gone and done it and gone and talked to their doctor. You know, in Australia, we're a free country. We can make decisions about our own health, we talk to our doctor. That's what I said. Go and talk to your doctor and have a chat with them. We actually provided a Medicare schedule item which enabled that consultation to be paid for. So I just didn't sort of say it. I backed it up by ensuring people could get paid, the doctor could get paid to have that discussion with you and you could make an informed decision about your own health.
Now, the technical advisory group on immunisation today has also backed up what I was saying the other day. And the Chief Medical Officer was saying, but particularly in Sydney and particularly in south western Sydney, that if you've had your first AstraZeneca dose, go and get another one sooner. And they've said between four and 12 weeks, the CMO and I were more cautious at around eight weeks. But it's important for people to get those two doses and we'd encourage them to do that. I was talking to Dr Jamal Rifi today. Many of your listeners would know Jamal. He's a great leader out there in south western Sydney. They're setting up a Chester Hill clinic very soon for those immunisations. And I know that Jamal's been jabbing arms for as quickly as he can.
WILSON: A couple of quick questions before I let you go, from our listeners about today. The assistance package, as far as super goes, as far as, is the Government thinking about letting us get another $10,000 from our Super if this lockdown lasts a few more weeks?
PRIME MINISTER: That's not on the agenda at the moment, no.
WILSON: Question from Ben. If the lockdown lasts for much longer, could these payments announced today increase in value?
PRIME MINISTER: We're not contemplating at the moment based on what we're hearing out of New South Wales in terms of where they think the lockdown is going. Yeah, that's the best answer. I mean, we're going to keep it going at the levels we've just announced today. And hopefully we're in a situation where that won't be necessary.
WILSON: Susan's asked a question before I let you go. Do you know, if you're a casual employee and receive a part pension, can you still apply for a payment?
PRIME MINISTER: If you've lost between eight and 20 hours of work a week, you can get from next Monday across New South Wales and in Greater Sydney, $375. I mean, you can't have, you know, if you've got lots of leave and those sorts of things, then I think people understand there are reasonable things. And if you've lost more than 20 hours a week, doesn't matter if you're part time, permanent, casual, you can access that $600 payment from next Monday. I’d encourage people to do that. And Jim, if you could keep that number again, 180 22 66. That's how you can access that payment. You don't have to have lost your job. You don't have to be unemployed. You just have to have had, and even your employer may have reduced with your agreement, your hours down, potentially even to zero, but you're still attached to the employer, you can access this payment.
WILSON: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: And I encourage you to do so.
WILSON: That hotline 180 22 66 and the Services Australia website as well. Prime Minister, I know it's been a very, very busy afternoon. We do appreciate your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you, cheers mate.
