Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News
12 July 2021
KIERAN GILBERT: Prime Minister, thanks for your time. I know you've been meeting with your Expenditure Review Committee. What more detail can you give us about enhanced assistance for business and workers in New South Wales?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we were able to work through this morning, the in-principle support for where we'd like to go forward with New South Wales. We've been working closely with them and speaking constantly, texts and speaking as well with the Premier of New South Wales, Gladys Berejiklian. And Josh Frydenberg has been working closely with the New South Wales Treasurer, Dom Perrottet. The Treasuries of New South Wales and the Commonwealth have also been working together. We're expecting some final proposals to come up later this evening. And then, of course, the Premier and I and the Treasurers will meet again. I think we're getting pretty close. What we learnt last year when the pandemic hit is we had some very clear principles, Kieran, that really guided how we directed that economic support so it was maximum effect. And I think most people would agree that those measures we did put in place were incredibly effective for the fact that a million people or thereabouts are back at work, I think is testament to that. And the economy is larger now than before the pandemic struck. One of the most effective measures in addition to the income support, was the cash flow boost that was put in place. Now, in New South Wales alone that that injected more than $10 billion directly from the Commonwealth Government to support New South Wales businesses. And there was much more that went, of course, some $30 billion or thereabouts around the rest of the country.
That was a very effective measure because it gave business a lot of confidence and it went together with the income support. Now, you know already that we have income support for this lockdown. It was the same income support that was provided in the most recent Victorian lockdown, which only was required for that one week. We're now into week three and we waived that liquid assets test. We go into a week four, we're looking at further ways we could strengthen that. So you've really got to match the income support, which is what the Commonwealth is doing 100 per cent. And you can access that on 180 22 66. That's available right now for those who need it, who've lost hours as a result of this lockdown and will be- and then you've got to add to that the business cash flow support, which gives the business the ability to push through the weeks ahead. And so that's what we're bringing together. We're moving swiftly. We've got to make sure you get that design right so it's simple, very simple for businesses and it's rapid and is supported by the banks as well.
GILBERT: So strengthening that wage support for those that are losing hours at work. But also you know, providing that support for business via the cash flow approach, which we saw last year. So on both fronts, we will see enhanced support?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, and this is what we've been working through since last Wednesday when the Premier contacted me and indicated that this lockdown and the progression of the virus and the outbreak here in New South Wales was really moving into a completely different phase. And so we moved quickly, as you know, to put those 300,000 extra doses, 150,000 extra Pfizer doses immediately. And that's been provided to the New South Wales Government to support their vaccination, particularly in south western Sydney and the many critical populations that they need to vaccinate.
On top of that, we then moved to relax those those income support payments. And now we've been working over the weekend with them cooperatively together to ensure that we can deliver support that is targeted, that is proportionate, that is scalable, and ultimately is a support that doesn't have to be there forever. It needs to back businesses in with the decisions they're making right now to support their staff. But if you have lost hours, you can access that income support. Right now, it's the level of income support that was available in JobKeeper in its final phase in March of this year.
GILBERT: Now, the vaccine advertising, we've seen the ads roll out in Sydney, quite a graphic advertisement, a woman struggling to breathe on a ventilator. What do you say to criticism that that's simply too graphic?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there's always criticism of any advertising. I know that, and it was only a few weeks ago that our very critics were saying that the advertising needed to be stronger, far stronger, even making references to grim reapers. So, look, there'll always be lots of opinions on these things. But what's important is we need people to understand how and how critical it is that they follow the advice that is here in New South Wales now. We were having major problems with compliance here in New South Wales. I think we've made a big step forward on that over about the last four or so days. And we really seen those mobility levels now plummeting in New South Wales, which means people are getting the message and staying at home. There's two ways to protect yourself, of course, to stay at home. And so you're keeping yourself, your family and your community safe, but secondly, of course, where you're eligible for that vaccine, then we encourage people, particularly elderly people, to go and get it because they are the most vulnerable. As the Premier has said today, she has repeated effectively what I'd said a week or so ago, and that you should talk to your doctor about the AstraZeneca vaccine. It's an informed consent decision, and I would appreciate the support she's given for people going and doing just that.
GILBERT: There's been some criticism as well from younger Australians who see that young woman on the ventilator and say, well, we can't even get the preferred vaccine at the moment. It all goes back to supply. Is it unfair or is it misleading in a way, for that ad to have that young woman as the feature when a lot of people in that cohort can't get the jab?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, as I said, it has two messages. And one is to stay at home. I mean, that we can't be complacent about this. And young people moving around the city was putting people at risk right across the community, including themselves. And so there's that message. But also, I mean, as I just indicated, and as the Premier already has today, about going and seeing your doctor and having that discussion about available vaccines. But of course, with the Pfizer vaccine, which we have been able to upscale and bring forward, I should say, bring forward those vaccines to a million a week very, very shortly. And there's additional vaccines going into New South Wales right now, those 150,000, then that is obviously going to improve things as time goes on.
GILBERT: 11 of the 52 people in hospital in New South Wales are under 35, six under 25. Was Dr Jeannette Young wrong when she told young Australians it's far too dangerous to get AstraZeneca?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it doesn't accord with the TGA advice and the ATAGI advice, that's all. That's all I said. I said that people should talk to their doctor and the TGA approval for AstraZeneca is for those age groups and that the ATAGI advice said there was a preference, a preferred vaccine for those under 60. And that's why it's important that people talk to their doctor. I just basically restated what the ATAGI advice was. But equally, I know from talking directly to the then head of ATAGI who made that decision about the over 50s originally. And the view was very clear from ATAGI. That where the balance of risk changes, i.e. when you've got an outbreak like we are seeing in Sydney at the moment, because of the very low incidence of the of the cases that involve those complications and quite serious ones on the very rare circumstances, that the balance of risk tips for having the vaccine. And that's why it's important that people have that discussion with their doctor.
GILBERT: If we treated the vaccination rollout as a race, would we still be having lockdown's like we're seeing now?
PRIME MINISTER: No - those comments were made at a time when we were talking about the approval, the approval of those vaccines by the official bodies here in Australia. That we had low rates of COVID at the time. And the view was by Professor Brendan Murphy and many others that those agencies had to do their job and we had to get the rollout occurring in the most effective way to target those in the older age groups. And so we were prioritising where those vaccines in the early phases needed to go. Those comments were made back in March. And Kieran, I mean, clearly the situation has changed since that time and that's why we've been ramping things up. We are now hitting almost a million vaccine doses a week. And at no stage was there ever envisaged, under any plan or scenario, that Australia would have been in a position right now where we would have had a critical mass of vaccinations in the community. And in fact, the only country I'm aware of in the world today that has a vaccination rate of higher than 65 per cent is Israel. So the suggestion that Australia wasn't going to be in a suppression phase at this point of the year is just simply not correct. And I think those sorts of comments and the criticisms that have been directed towards us on that tend to have a bit of a political overlay.
GILBERT: When you look back, though, in hindsight, would you have acquired more Pfizer jabs? If we look back to December, say, when the UQ CSL vaccine fell over, the government had ordered an extra 31 jabs, 20 million, AstraZeneca, 11 million, Novavax, no Pfizer. At the time, if you could take yourself back to that point, would you have stepped up the acquisition of Pfizer then?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't have that opportunity and no one could have known at that time Kieran and that's the point. So what we did was as soon as we had those issues, we increased our contracted doses from 10 to 20 million Pfizer. And that was done very quickly. I remember it, when Greg Hunt was able to secure that. And then when we had the challenges with the ATAGI advice, we got it doubled very quickly from 20 million to 40 million. And now, most recently, after some great work done by Greg Hunt and Brendan Murphy, we've been able to bring forward those doses so we can escalate the level of vaccinations we're getting this month. We keep going at the rate we're at now, we will reach where we want to get to by the end of the year. As I said earlier last week, that would put us about two months out from where we were and hoped to be earlier in this year. And so we've been doing a lot of catch up over the recent months. There's been serious challenges. I don't deny that. But, you know, you can't dwell on those challenges. You overcome them as we have. I appointed Lieutenant General Frewen to bring all of that effort together, and I think he's made a great job of that. And things are really starting to escalate where people I know would like them to get to.
GILBERT: Did Kevin Rudd's intervention help in any way?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I can only go by what Pfizer said. Pfizer issued a statement. I mean, look, I welcome the support from anyone who wants to assist with these things, and that's fine. But ultimately, as Pfizer has made very clear, I mean, this is a contractual relationship between the Federal Government, the Commonwealth Government and Pfizer. It's been a very positive relationship. I'm very appreciative of the way that Pfizer has been able to respond to all of our requests, whether it was going from 10 to 20 million or 20 to 40 million, or bringing these forward. That is the work that has been done each and every day, not one conversation. Each and every day by all of our officials and government ministers and others who are supporting, ensuring we get things as soon as we possibly can. So I welcome any support. And ...
GILBERT: Did you speak to the head of Pfizer?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I have spoken to the head of Pfizer here in Australia, which is where the contract is, and that's how it's managed on numerous occasions. In fact, while I was in Europe, I had the opportunity to also sit down with one of their senior board directors. So we've been managing that relationship at a very senior level.
GILBERT: Now, I've spoken to Pat McGorry, the great Australian, the Australian of the Year, a psychiatrist and mental health advocate. And he says, he said to me in the last couple of days, the Federal Government is doing more than it's ever done. So he was giving your government a wrap on that front, but he said to me, the scale is moving faster than we can keep up with. Do you accept that this pandemic has had a much heavier impact on younger people than it has anyone else?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's hard to draw a conclusion about whether it's had a greater impact on younger people. I would certainly agree that it has had a very significant impact on younger people. I think it's had a significant impact on all Australians, to be frank, Kieran. And regardless of what age you are with, your mental health has been of supreme concern to us as a government. We as a government have put more into supporting increased mental health support in our community, than I'm aware of any other government, probably around the world.
When I've sat with leaders and talked about the various COVID responses, it has been Australia that has been the one nominating how we've worked through groups like Headspace. In fact, when I was with Prime Minister Johnson, I was actually talking to him about Headspace and Pat and I had that conversation before I headed over there. So the only other leader that has really highlighted this in any of the forums that I've been in is actually the Sultan of Brunei at an APEC meeting last year. And Australia has been very consistent. And our response, I think, has been very effective in the organisations, whether it's Lifeline or Kids Helpline or Beyond Blue, or many of these organisations that we've increased funding for, Headspace included. They have met a rapidly escalating level of demand. And as a result, we haven't seen the escalation in those death by suicide rates that, you know, we were dreadfully concerned about, and that's a testimony to the to the value of those services that we've backed and that Pat has had a huge role in advising me directly, as we've got to know each other pretty well over the years in different portfolios. And I've greatly valued his insights and his advice.
GILBERT: Yeah, and he's absolutely a wonderful human being, there's no doubt about it. The Medical Journal of Australia says that a survey of young people has a very substantial increase in mental health. That's the journal out today. This is a shadow pandemic, isn't it? There's no doubt about it ...
PRIME MINISTER: I agree.
GILBERT: The reason I put it in those terms is because these are such formative years for people growing up and they're copping lockdown after lockdown.
PRIME MINISTER: I totally agree. And I particularly feel for those going through year 12 right now as they come into the most important part of the year for them here in Sydney, just as those in Victoria were dealing with that last year. I mean, last year we put additional resources into Melbourne mental health support and we'll be making similar announcements about that here for Sydney very, very soon. We've been working with the New South Wales Government on that as well. So we are working together. And I would absolutely agree. I mean, that's why in the last budget, it was the single biggest boost to mental health funding and a plan for not just that, but national suicide prevention as well, which has been a high priority for me and for my government. And I think David Coleman and Greg Hunt have been doing a great job pulling that plan together. The head to health initiative, which is basically Headspace for adults, I mean, that will have the same impact, I think, and be significant going well into the future, providing that mental health support here in Australia. We're world leaders at this. It's thanks to people like Pat McGorry and others that we're able to say that and governments like ours that is committed to ensuring that those organisations are well supported, as well as state governments doing similarly.
GILBERT: It'd be remiss of me if I didn't end on a positive note, given the events of the weekend. Ash Barty, once in a generation, well hopefully not once in a generation. She's only 25. She'll probably win a few more slams, we hope she does. Have you spoken to her at all? Message of congrats?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, I spoke to Ash first thing this morning. And we had a great chat and I spoke to Dylan Alcott last night actually, as well. And they're a great pair and they're tremendously supportive of each other. Of course, their Wimbledon achievements are just breathtaking and inspirational. And I'm sure many of us, I certainly was, was up there watching the other night. And I just loved her grit. I loved her determination, that she pushed through when she thought she might have had at the end of that second set, but didn't turn out. But she doubled down and pushed through to the end of that third set. But I tell you what's more inspirational about both of them. It's just the quality of the people they are. They're great characters. Talking to Ash this morning, she was just talking about the values of her parents, both of them so appreciative of the great support they've received from Australia. That really did lift them. And I told them, that well, you lifted Australia, both of you, particularly those going through a difficult time where we are at the moment. And we look forward to Tokyo.
GILBERT: Yeah, absolutely. And she just said, I hope I made Evonne proud. Tapping into that, her hero. Wasn't it beautiful, yeah?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, that was absolutely special. And it was just great. It's the quality, I mean, there are plenty of great athletes, but I think they put themselves in the class of their own by their own character.
GILBERT: Prime Minister Scott Morrison, thanks for joining me today. Appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks a lot Kieran, good to talk to you.
