Interview with Neil Mitchell, 3AW
24 August 2021
Neil Mitchell: Mr Morrison, good morning.
Prime Minister: G'day, how are you Neil?
Mitchell: I know you're stretched, I'm sorry, but there, I'd be, I apologise in advance. But there's a horrible truth here, Prime Minister, is that you're being forced really to take a punt that the Doherty Institute's right and the others are wrong. That's a punt that could, if it goes wrong, cost 30,000 lives.
Prime Minister: Well, I don't agree with that assessment, but I know others who have put that forward. And they assume that there's, you know, vaccinations don't continue to rise. They assume there's no other public health measures in place and all of that. So, I mean, that's, that's not a realistic scenario and that's not what is going to happen. But the Doherty Institute, as your listeners know, as you will know, is the one of the most significant scientific agencies in the world. They were the first one that could actually reproduce the virus in the lab. I remember going to see them at the Doherty Institute in February last year and they shared all of that with the world. So this is the most significant, I believe, advisory group in the world on these issues. And they've been very clear because we've got a plan to do this safely. This is not Freedom Day. It's a science day, if you like, it's telling us that we can do this safely and we can move ahead and we can when we can get going again.
Mitchell: But, yeah, you still have been required to make a decision between Doherty and others. And a lot of them taken me through the figures. I mean, we are certainly looking at a pandemic of the unvaccinated, aren't we?
Prime Minister: Well, of course. And that's why we're seeking to maximise those vaccination rates. And I'd also note that once you hit 70 and once you hit 80, the first dose rates are even higher. And then also the vaccination amongst the most vulnerable, particularly the elderly, will be even higher than those marks as well. Now, that has been demonstrated when you compare what has happened in Sydney this year to what happened in Melbourne last year. And even with vaccination rates, at you know, 30 per cent double dose, we've had over 80 per cent double dose vaccination rates in aged care facilities. And so we have not seen the terrible outcomes that we saw in Victoria last year when vaccines weren't available, in Sydney. So that demonstrates that you can live with this virus when you reach those levels of vaccination.
Mitchell: But this decision is still being made. You had to weigh up the evidence there ...
Prime Minister: Of course you do.
Mitchell: We have to. And that's what I want to get the point. On one side is that it could cost 30,000 lives. And I hope to hell they're wrong. But we have to brace ourselves, do we not? I mean, in the Doherty says, what? 385,000 are likely in six months?
Prime Minister: Well, they've also said that with appropriate public health measures, which doesn't mean lockdowns, we can, we can reduce infection significantly and also fatalities. And it means that we can manage this like any other infectious disease. I mean, there are 600 death to the flu each year and there are some 200,000 cases each year. And that doesn't shut down cities. And we live with that. And we still see our families and we still go out for coffee. We still go to the 'G. We still do all of these things. And so this is something we can live with. And I understand, Neil, that there are very real fears about this. And you're right, we do have to make decisions and we make them on the best possible advice. And the 30,000 figure that I'm familiar with is the 30,000 lives we've saved, that we saved, by taking decisions, listening carefully to the best possible advice. And that 30,000 figure, by the way, is based on the fatality rate in countries just like Australia. United Kingdom, across Europe, the United States, countries with big economies, sophisticated health systems. If we had the same fatality rate as them, more than 30,000 Australians would be dead today because of that. So we've made good decisions. We've worked together. The national plan is based on that same sensible, careful approach.
Mitchell: Have you, have you got national unity? It does seem still that some of the premiers are running off in different directions. Have you really got unified leadership on this?
Prime Minister: Well, on three occasions we have agreed this plan, not just one. It was many months in the development informing the process through the Doherty Institute and the economic advice that we received. We agreed the plan as to what its phases would be. Then we agreed that the rate of vaccination that would apply to it and then we confirmed it again a week later when the outbreak of Sydney was already well underway. And so we have agreed to this. But it's not an agreement with me, Neil. It's an agreement with the Australian people. And I appreciate the comments that the Premier Andrews said yesterday. I mean, he's been a strong supporter of the plan. And the issues we now need to work through between now and when we reach those rates is that we can reinforce our public health systems, that we get the sensible, practical measures that will need to be in place with living with the virus. And that's what we have to focus on. So we step forward into that rather than stepping away from it.
Mitchell: Well alright, the public health system is going to be pushed, it's stretched already. It's going to be pushed more and is going to be pushed long term because of long COVID with people still remaining ill for a long time in different ways. How much money can you put into the health system?
Prime Minister: Well, we've been putting record amounts in now and ...
Mitchell: Yeah, but this is a new one, this is a new challenge …
Prime Minister: Yeah, I get that. To be honest, there are many stresses on the health system, there are many stresses on the aged care system, the mental health system, and we've responded to all of those challenges. I mean, we put in this additional $17 billion commitments into the aged care system in the last budget, we put $2.3 billion extra into mental health. And so we've demonstrated, I think Neil, the point of raising that is we've demonstrated our commitment to getting these sort of things done and dealing with these challenges. And we do have to deal with them. The states principally have responsibility for those health systems. I think it's reasonable for states to be saying, well, I'm concerned about this. I'm concerned about that. Fair enough. But let's work through that. I mean, because if it's not at 70 or 80 per cent, then when?
Mitchell: Prime Minister, we vaccinate babies before they leave the hospital. We vaccinate kids before they're walking, why not vaccinate children age five?
Prime Minister: Well, there is no country in the world that's doing that right now.
Mitchell: I know, but unless you vaccinate kids it's not going to work.
Prime Minister: Well, no, no, I don't necessarily agree with that. And that's not the advice that we've been given either. And if there is to be a vaccine that's provided to children under 12, then we will follow all the necessary processes to give clearance to that from the medical experts like we do with any other vaccine, the vaccine you're talking about that we vaccinate children with now, go through that same process and we have one of the highest rates of children vaccination immunisation in the world, over 95 per cent. And the reason for that is because I think people understand that when we say your child should get a vaccine, then we can say with the confidence of the process we've gone through. And that's what we'll do here, like we do with every other vaccine,. 12 to 15 year olds, we have that approval from the TGA. The Immunisation Advisory Group will give us their final advice, my understanding is on Friday, we're already working with the states. That means we'll be able to do that in parallel with the broader vaccination programme.
Mitchell: Just finally, could we be looking at a Delta divide here? I mean, if some states get to 70 or 80 per cent ahead of others, and New South Wales is ahead of everybody at the moment, even Victoria narrowly, then we could have New South Wales or a particular state opened up to an extent, and the state next door isn't?
Prime Minister: Look, on the East Coast and certainly with New South Wales and Victoria, I mean, I think they are both moving well. I think the vaccination programme is working well there. And I'd say particularly in Victoria, the state based vaccination clinics. I mean, that's the leading state based vaccination programme around the country. They're doing a really great job. And the GPs, as I said this morning, there's more places you can get the vaccine in Australia then you can get a Big Mac now. And so you know, those points of presence through pharmacies and GPs. But I'll tell you what, I don't think anyone is going to want to be left behind. And so states like Western Australia, which haven't had those outbreaks, then, of course, people think that, oh, I don't need to get the vaccine because it's not here. Well, COVID will have a second view about that. And the borders and those other things that states might want to do are not as powerful as the vaccine. And that's why it's important that all Australians do it.
Mitchell: Is there more vaccine available if Victoria wants it?
Prime Minister: We've been piling the vaccines in now. And and that's why we're able to keep these record numbers and both with Pfizer. We've got Moderna starting next month. We've got the AstraZeneca, which Victoria has done a great job on, making sure we continue to push forward that. I greatly appreciate that.
Mitchell: The Premier was still indicating he didn't have enough yesterday, is there more there if he wants it?
Prime Minister: Well, there's certainly more AstraZeneca. And we're maximising every dose of Pfizer to get it out there. And that's why we're hitting marks of almost, well yesterday, I can tell you there was, we were able to do 289,942 yesterday. That gets us to 17.44 million. In Victoria, we continued in Victoria now, we've got over, we're approaching 4.5 million doses that have been done there. And there was 67,982 extra done yesterday. So it's going ahead. And it's I mean, our last seven days, you know, Monday to Sunday, that was about 1.8 million on a per capita basis. That was better than any week the UK ever had.
Mitchell: Prime Minister, I'm sorry, we have run out of time. I really appreciate you squeezing that. I thank you very much.
