Interview with Oliver Peterson, 6PR
26 October 2021
Oliver Peterson: We've got the Prime Minister joining us live from Parliament House in Canberra, as the federal government today released the plan for a net zero carbon emission future by 2050. Scott Morrison. Good afternoon.
Prime Minister: G'day Oly, good to be with you. G'day to everyone in the West.
Peterson: You call this the Australian way. What does it all mean?
Prime Minister: What it means is we can get to net zero emissions by 2050, not by putting on taxes, not by telling people what they have to buy and what they have to do. We can get there and keep affordable, reliable energy, and we can get there through the technologies which we're developing and which Western Australia is going to play a huge part in. And particularly with critical minerals and things such as lithium and nickel and copper, all of this, which is needed to produce batteries, renewables and electric vehicles. This is how we get there. This can be a positive for Australia. We know that around the world, they're responding to climate change and that can have an impact on us. But the way to respond is to engage it. To achieve it. To do it our way. And to make sure we realise the opportunities.
Peterson: The Greens leader Adam Bandt says your plan is reliant on that technology you just mentioned. But he argues much of this technology doesn't exist yet. Does he have a point that much of the plan is still relying on hope?
Prime Minister: No, he doesn't have a point. He just wants to tax you, and he wants to shut everything down, he'd shut most of Western Australia down if he had half a chance. And that's not the way that you achieve this. The way you achieve this is realise what Western Australians have always known, where people understood that they had to go and create great big mining industries like in the Pilbara. I mean, you had to actually go and create those. And, but the technologies we're talking about now, whether they be batteries or hydrogen technology in particular. I mean, I was just speaking with the head of Rio today. I often talk to Twiggy Forrest. They are already doing this up there. They are already putting hydrogen in the big remote mining trucks. This is already happening in Australia. Australia is leading the way in many of these areas, so we just need to realise that and that is a far better way to do it. You don't want a carbon tax, you don't want to have to shut down your resources industries. That's not our plan. That's not what we will do. That's not the Australian way.
Peterson: Why the plan now Prime Minister?
Prime Minister: Because the COP26 is on this weekend, and that has always been a timetable for us to update what we'll be doing next. The last election, we made it really clear we rejected what Labor wanted to do, which was a 45 per cent reduction in emissions. We put forward a plan for 26 to 28 per cent by 2030. Australians accepted our plan. They rejected Labor's plan. Now the good news is we're making great progress on that. Australia's emissions have already fallen by over 20 per cent since 2005. And what we released today is, we believe by 2030 that will fall by 35 per cent. No tax is needed, no telling people what they have to drive and what they have to do. Just the technologies and the other work we're doing is ensuring that we're making real progress. And at the same time, since 2005, our economy has grown by 45 per cent. There's three million more jobs, and right now there are now a million Australians back in manufacturing jobs. And that comes in particular from a lot of the work we've been doing over the last few years.
Peterson: You've previously made mention of this being tied to national security. Did Joe Biden and Boris Johnson force your hand?
Prime Minister: Of course not. We decide what our policy is here, and this is in Australia's interest to do this. And this actually positions particularly rural and regional areas of the country to be real, real winners in this, because what we're talking about these technologies where the $20 billion of investment that the government is making, which will pull in between $60 and $100 billion from investors all around the world, that's going to find its way into regional areas because that's where the technology has to be. That's where it has to be implemented. That's where it's going to fuel our heavy industries, not just in Western Australia, but all around the country. So this is in our interest to do it. That said, of course, they have some strong views on this, but their plans are different to ours. They're going down a different path. We're going to get into the path of technology, not taxes.
Peterson: But signing up to net zero emissions by 2050 is not contingent at all, say on the AUKUS agreement, for example?
Prime Minister: Of course not.
Peterson: What's it going to cost Prime Minister?
Prime Minister: Well, as I've said, the low emissions technology plan is $20 billion of investment, and that will pull together private investment of between $60 and $100 billion. I mean, there is money around the world which is looking to solve these big technology problems. You know, it's not unlike what happened with the COVID vaccine. I mean, when we were in the middle of COVID, there had never been a coronavirus vaccine, but the world decided to crack that technology, and they did. We now have MRNA vaccines, which were almost science fiction before COVID. Now we're going to invest together with partners around the world, private investors, to ensure we're cracking the hydrogen problem. That we're going to get low cost solar down to about $15 per megawatt hour, that we get energy storage at under $100 per megawatt hour. That we get carbon capture and storage at under $20 per ton of CO2. That we make low emission steel and aluminium. That we have both blue and green hydrogen and that we can measure soil carbon at under $3 per hectare, per year. They're the details of the plan. If you can achieve those changes in technology, all realisable, then you can hit these targets and you can make this happen without having to tax anybody.
Peterson: So you say Australians will be $2,000 better off by pursuing this plan? Is that how you arrived at the figure you've just outlined to our listeners? Let's be crystal clear about this. You believe by 2050, they will not have to pay more for their electricity?
Prime Minister: That's right, because this is what the technology does. This is why you do it. If you do nothing, this is the real risk. If you do nothing, then you cut Australia off from that waterfall of investment that will come to support these new technologies. They're not going to come invest in a country that doesn't have a plan like this. They will go elsewhere. The opportunity will pass Australia by, and it will make it harder for Australia to compete in that world. See, the world is changing, responding to climate change. Decisions are being made all around the world about what they want to buy, what they want to do, that impact on Australia. Now we get that and we need to respond to that and we need to be proactive about it. And that means this plan from the Commonwealth Government, from the Australian Government, provides the framework, the opportunity for everyone else to participate and move ahead.
Peterson: Will you legislate the plan?
Prime Minister: No, you don't have to. We've had the 2020 targets and the 2030 targets. None of those have been legislated. You only legislate if you want to try and force people to do anything. We don't want to force people to do anything because we know Australians want to do this and they're already doing it. We've already cut emissions by 20 per cent and we haven't legislated any of it. I mean, the idea that you have to legislate this is what the Labor Party thinks because they like to tax people. They like to force people to do things. They like to tell people what they have to do and what they buy. But for a miner in WA in particular, flying in and out of the mines, what this means is there'll be new resource opportunities in addition to the ones that are already there. I mean, the critical minerals that go into making this new, clean energy technology will rely heavily on what's in the ground in Western Australia. It is essential for all of these countries to meet these targets we're talking about, to be taking the minerals that are there in Western Australia that make all of these plans work. So it's a great opportunity. You wouldn't want to cut yourself off from it. And by not going down this path, we would, and that would be a dud idea.
Peterson: Speaking of new opportunities, lots of announcements regarding hydrogen and renewables. Will nuclear power also come into the mix now?
Prime Minister: Well, it's a watching technology, but it's not one that we're lifting the moratorium on. We've always said that that would have to be done on a bipartisan basis. We're not going to get into the political games with the Labor Party on those things. They're totally opposed to that. So we're not going to go down that path while they have that view. But a lot of that technology, what's called small modular reactors, many of your listeners may be aware of those, those technologies are still developing in the United States and other places. But here in Australia, we haven't had that. And so we're able to do what I've said today, achieve a net zero outcome by 2050 without having to do that.
Peterson: On a couple of other issues, Prime Minister, the nationwide search continues for four year old Cleo Smith missing, possibly abducted now for 11 days. Our collective hearts obviously go out to the family. Is the federal government assistance there on offer to the search?
Prime Minister: Well, of course. And this is heartbreaking. I just want to assure everybody over there in WA, particularly the family and friends of poor Cleo, this is really capturing the minds of the country. It certainly has captured our minds here and our hearts go out to them. But in terms of technology and tradecraft, the AFP have some very advanced capabilities, leading edge, not just here in Australia, but all around the world. And as much as I'd love to reveal exactly of what some of those are and how they're being used, we certainly can't talk about that on air, but the AFP are there and they've joined that process. I'm very pleased to say that they're helping in every way they possibly can through their intelligence capabilities, their technology and their forensics abilities. I just hope we can find Cleo mate. I just really do. I think the whole nation is just waiting and hoping and praying.
Peterson: We certainly are. Since announcing that Queensland will be opening up with no more threats of lockdowns from mid-December, Premier Palaszczuk has seen an uptick in Queensland's daily rate of vaccinations. In WA though the daily rate has flatlined since Premier McGowan's refusal to follow suit, he's instead resorted to obviously mandates and fines. Do you think that Mark McGowan should offer some sort of carrot alongside the stick, giving West Aussies that aim for before Christmas?
Prime Minister: Well, I am pleased that we're finally over 60 per cent on a double dose in WA. I know other states are well in advance of that, I mean, over in New South Wales, 85.5%, in Victoria they're at 75.9. Tassie, where there hasn't been COVID, just like in WA, 72.6 double dose. We're heading to have some of the highest vaccination rates anywhere in the world and where it has been successful in other states and territories, it has been because people, you know, want to reclaim what they've lost. They want to be able to connect with people again. They want to be able to do what they were doing before. That's proven to be the strongest of all possible incentives. And you know, we of course, we want to open up safely, but to stay safely open, that's what the national plan is all about. And so I just want to encourage Western Australians to go out there, get vaccinated, get connected again. Let's move forward together. Let's bring the whole country together again.
Peterson: Should we set a date in WA?
Prime Minister: Well, what matters is achieving the target rates of vaccination. That's what enables you to open safely. And it would be great to see Western Australia achieving those vaccination rates of 70 and 80 per cent before the end of the year. I'd love to see that. So let's go, WA. Let's go.
Peterson: And one last on the federal election, how concerned are you about the Liberal seats in Western Australia, given obviously the state Libs are in disarray. Do you think that could rub off at a federal level?
Prime Minister: Well, I think Western Australians understand very clearly that at the federal election, it's a choice between the Liberals led by me and the Labor Party, led by Anthony Albanese. If you vote Labor, you don't get Mark McGowan, you get Anthony Albanese and Mark McGowan's going to be the Premier of WA either way. And we worked incredibly, incredibly close closely with Mark on infrastructure issues and the many other issues, GST being the biggest one. He knows that it has been our government in particular that delivered the GST deal for WA that was so long in the waiting for and we're very pleased to do that. So I think Western Australians understand if they want a strong economy and a strong national security government to work closely with the needs of Western Australia and gets it, the right way to achieve that is with a Liberal led government at a federal level. We'll work closely with Mark McGowan. He hasn't got his name on the ballot on this one. That's Anthony Albanese. He's got his name on the ballot for the next one, and it's a choice between me and him and our parties.
Peterson: Prime Minister, appreciate your time. Safe travels to Glasgow. Thank you.
Prime Minister: Good on you, Oly. Good to talk to you.
