Interview with Studio 10
27 May 2020
SARAH HARRIS: Prime Minister Scott Morrison joins us now from a very chilly Canberra. It's nice to see you, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER: Nice to see you, too. Thanks for having me on.
HARRIS: Pleasure. You've certainly got your work cut out for you.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there's a lot of work to do. We've got to get Australians back into work. We've lost so many jobs and we've got to get Australians back into jobs and the way that you do that is that you get workers and bosses together, and working out how they can come together to create more jobs in their businesses. If there's no business, there's no job and everybody loses, so we've got to find ways to make the businesses successful in coming out of this crisis so that they can keep the jobs on for those who are still there and bring some jobs back and create new jobs into the future. Jobs is the thing. That's what’s got to unite everybody. Because if we have got people in jobs they don't have to be dependent on welfare and income supports. I know that Australians would prefer to be in jobs and they're keen to get back into work and we need the businesses to create those jobs. That's what this is all about.
ANGELA BISHOP: Left wing unions and working with conservative government. What do you reckon your chances are?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're going to give it a go, Ange. We're going to give it a go. Look, I met with Sally McManus last week up in Sydney at our residence there in Kirribilli and we had a good, genuine honest chat. We're going into it with our eyes wide open. We know we've had a lot of differences but we all have to put our differences aside in a time like this. And so far, and when it came to pulling together the JobKeeper package and some of the industrial relations temporary changes we made there, that was done in good faith. So there's some runs on the board already. But we're going to have to put a lot more on the board. But we're not being unrealistic about this. I don't have false expectations. We're going to see how it goes, but we've set the clock on this. This is not going to go on indefinitely and if we can make the movement, if we can get the ground, then good.
JOE HILDEBRAND: PM, full credit to the Government for trying to get national unity on this, and I believe that there has been a lot of good faith on your part, including dropping the so-called ensuring integrity or union-busting bill. Another measure of good faith, talking about the JobKeeper package, would surely be, now that there is the unexpected windfall, extending it to casual workers who are working in the entertainment or festival areas. These are the kind of people who are not artists, they're often blue collar workers working cameras, stage hands, that sort of thing, who work on the last things that are probably going to be up and running in Australia. Big tourist draw cards - things like festivals, people who work hand-to-mouth already. Surely there is a case for extending the JobKeeper assistance to casual workers who have not worked for the same employer for a year or more? Surely that is something that the Government could easily do, has the money to d and would be a great gesture of goodwill, and also help to prop up the economy. Could you do it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't think that I agree with your assessment. This is all borrowed money. There's no windfall. I mean, this is all money that has to be borrowed. Everyone who is entitled to get the support through the JobKeeper program is getting that support and that's what it was designed to do. And the JobSeeker program was designed as the general catch-all for those who didn't fall into that scheme. See, the two go together. They're both important. They both support all Australians and we've got five million Australians supported by this. I mean, Treasury estimated a worst-case scenario of what it might cost. Now, the good news is that it won't cost that and the taxpayer won't have to borrow another $60 billion over just six months. Think about that figure for just a second. $60 billion, it's not money we found behind the couch.
HILDEBRAND: It would cost far less than $60 billion. It would cost far less than $60 billion and I understand that it is not money on trees and I don't think that we should spend it just for the sake of it. But surely it is not too much to say that this is a section of the economy that through no fault of their own…
PRIME MINISTER: But they get JobSeeker. JobSeeker is there to support people who aren't covered by JobKeeper and I'm not going to demonise JobSeeker. We've doubled the JobSeeker payments to support those who aren't covered by the other programs. That's what it was designed to do. Everyone who was able to get JobKeeper has been getting JobKeeper through this program. No one has been denied that, that it was designed to receive it. What JobKeeper doesn’t do, well, let me tell you what it does do. It supports people in permanent, full time and part time employment, people who are casuals and who have been there for 12 months. It doesn't pay state governments for their responsibilities and local governments, they have to deal with that. Or foreign governments. So this is how it was designed. Everybody who was designed to get it has been getting it. No one has been denied it who was designed to get it and no one is getting paid who wasn't designed to get it. So the program is working. JobSeeker is working and the two of them together are supporting over five million Australians at a cost of borrowed money to the taxpayer of $150 billion. So that's the size and scale of the support that's going on. Now, for specific sectors, whether it be in the media sector or the entertainment sector, or the tourism sector, there will be prolonged and more significant impacts over a longer period of time and we understand that and that's why we're addressing that through more targeted approaches. But JobSeeker is not a second best option. JobSeeker is an important economic support and I don't agree with the demonisation that has been made of JobSeeker. I think that it is a critical support and there are 1.6 million people who are relying on it.
KERRI-ANNE KENNERLEY: Prime Minister, Kerri-Anne here. I can't imagine how frustrated you have been, as an elected Prime Minister putting out a plan for what has been an enormous crisis in this country and in the world. And then having individual states not toe the line. So let's just pretend, for instance, I'm Annastacia Palaszczuk and Daniel Andrews. What do you want to say on the QT to me, or to both of those Premiers?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, first of all, I don't think that we should overstate this. I mean, by and large, the states and territories have worked incredibly well through the National Cabinet process. I mean, we have countries of just equal sophistication to ours, developed economies, good health systems, and they have had death rates a hundred times and more what Australia has had. So let's not just brush aside that. That has been the product of people working together, and particularly states and territories working together with the Federal Government. Now, on this issue of internal borders, that is not something National Cabinet ever agreed was something that was required. That is something that individual states have done off their own back. Now, I'm optimistic that will get sorted out, and I think that it is in the interest of jobs for it to be sorted out. At the moment, they will announce their timetables, but I wouldn't overstate it in terms of the level of working relationship between the states and territories and the Commonwealth. I mean, by and large, that's worked very well. The expectation that they're going to agree on everything, and states and territories aren't going to take unilateral decisions on some things, I think is unrealistic. I mean they're sovereign states and they'll make their own calls. But I was just going to say - they've got to be accountable for it, though. There is no medical advice that we received nationally.
HARRIS: It must be incredibly frustrating for you. You want to get the economy out of ICU, and you've got the curve that's more than being flattened - it's been absolutely smashed. And the states are just doing their own thing in spite of everything you're saying. That must be infuriating?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, no, I'm a lot more calm than that. It's important to be calm through all of these issues and that’s my job.
HARRIS: It must have been that trip you took earlier in the year. Still got the Hawaii vibes, the shakas?
PRIME MINISTER: I'll go home and turn Tina Arena on and she calms me right down on every occasion.
KENNERLEY: That's going to be a special concert.
PRIME MINISTER: But what's important... Now you've completely distracted me now! But the point I was going to make is, look, there are four states that have got borders that they've been operating. Let’s not forget that the three step process, none of that had anything to do with borders because we never recommended borders in the first place. But on steps 1, 2 and 3, we're pretty much all the way through step 1 now. I mean states are moving on all of these. In Western Australia, they're already into step two. So the states are implementing this plan. The one issue that is causing contention at the moment is this issue of internal borders. And I want to see those go. Of course I want to see those go. I think that Gladys Berejiklian has been making some very good points about that. But you know I'm not going to seek to aggravate that situation. I respect the other Premiers and it's for them to make those judgements. But I'm concerned about the economic impact, and it's time to let those borders go down. But I'm sure that common-sense will prevail in good enough time.
BISHOP: Prime Minister, in terms of the some of the industrial relation relations changes you're flagging, over the last sort of 12-18 months, we've seen some pretty terrifying cases of underpayments to employees, particularly across the restaurant industry and also in supermarkets. These sort of cases, are these industrial relations changes going to be able to ensure that workers in the future are not underpaid on this massive level? Is that one of your aims?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah that's one of the key areas in the compliance working group that has been put together which is dealing with that particular issue. Look I think that there are two types, or let’s say three types of things here. First of all, you've got an incredibly complicated awards system with multiple pay points, which makes it very confusing, often for small and medium sized businesses, to just work out what they should actually be paying. And so, you know, there's some honest errors that take place here. But there’s no, we can't have people not paid what they should be getting paid. Then you've got larger businesses which have got to get their systems in place to make sure that they're complying. And then, of course, there are other egregious cases where people are deliberately doing the wrong thing, and that's just not on. But that's one of the key areas that we want these employers and their employees to get together and work out how can we make sure that we get this right? And that means also simplifying things so it's not impenetrable to be able to work out, because you've got to pay someone something different if they're coming in and out of the kitchen or someone serving this or serving that. I mean it is a very complex system that's been built up year after year after year. And small and medium sized businesses, you know, mum and dad businesses, I mean, you need a degree in industrial relations half the time to work some of this stuff out. And they're just trying to run a business and give people a go and employ people.
HARRIS: NRL is back this weekend as well Prime Minister, you must be pumped!
PRIME MINISTER: I am excited. But I had a bit of bad news on that front in the last 24 hours, which is very disappointing but..
HARRIS: Not great to be a Sharks supporter right now is it?
BISHOP: Did six months seem a long time for you for a drug test result?
PRIME MINISTER: Sorry, I missed that? I couldn't hear that.
BISHOP: Did six months seem a long time for you to get a drug test result?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, ASADA runs all those sort of issues so I’ll leave that to them and we can't have drugs in sport, whether look in this case, a young fellow showed a lot of promise and seems to have made some pretty poor choices and I'm disappointed about that. But I can't prejudice that process, they'll keep going through that. But whether it is my team or anyone else's team, or my sport or anyone else's sport, there's no place for drugs in sport. Absolutely none.
KENNERLEY: Well there is a place for music, though Prime Minister,
PRIME MINISTER: ...Of our fairness as a sporting nation. Pardon?
KENNERLEY: I've got Tina Arena just got back to me and she just said that she's very glad you're calm and wants to know your favourite song! See I've got Tina Arena’s little message back there.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, my favourite song is Unsung Hero actually, I’ve told her that, Unsung Hero is my favourite Tina Arena song.
HILDEBRAND: She’s singing I’m in Chains, is the song she wrote about the Queensland economy.
PRIME MINISTER: I’m just, I’m feeling soothed. I’m already feeling soothed and calm.
KENNERLEY: [inaudible] At least you’re not whingeing.
HARRIS: Prime Minister, we do appreciate your time.
PRIME MINISTER: No whining from me.
HARRIS: We appreciate your time. Thank you for taking the time to chat to us.
HILDEBRAND: Thanks PM.
PRIME MINISTER: All good. Cheers.
