Radio Interview with John Laws, 2SM
17 October 2019
Prime Minister
PRIME MINISTER: G’day John, how are you? I’ve missed you.
JOHN LAWS: Well, I've missed you. Where have you been? You've been round there talking to that other radio station.
PRIME MINISTER: I've been busy, I’ve got to say. And a big part of what I've been busy on, as I’d love to have a chat to you about today, is how we're responding to the drought that just keeps going on as I know your listeners out there right across rural and regional Australia will know.
LAWS: Ok. But before we get to that, why do you permit yourself to be harangued in the way that Alan Jones harangues you when you could come on- and you do come on this programme and I appreciate that - but why do you put up with that? I mean, you are the Prime Minister of the country. You are entitled to express your point of view without people screaming over the top of you, in an almost hysterical tone.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you know, I will turn up for interviews everywhere and it's always best when you can have an interview where you're able to respond to questions, there's no doubt about that, wherever you do them. But I'm never one to duck an interview, John, whether they're interviews that are hostile or otherwise. But look, it's important to get your message out and sometimes it's harder than that on other occasions. But, you know, it just goes with the job and I tend not to get too fussed about it.
LAWS: No, well, I suppose that's the best way to be. But a lot of people saw it and a lot of people who listen to this programme, they're the intelligent people, they rather felt that it was a sign of weakness that you let Alan get away with what he got away with.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, people can form their own judgments. I made my point as I do it in every interview. I think we've got a very credible story to tell in terms of the support we're providing, it's very extensive and there are a few additional measures of support which are being introduced into the Parliament today, in fact.
LAWS: As I said this morning - and I'd like to reiterate what I said - I said that I think with you we're in pretty good hands. I mean, I said this is the man who stopped the boats and you did. You didn't just ensure the boats remain stopped as Peter Dutton has done, he stopped them full stop. And you spent time as Social Services Minister overseeing a number of very, very important welfare reforms and the fruits of that work are being seen still today. And of course, you did spend time as Treasurer, handing down several well-received Budgets and you didn't have any of the baggage of Tony Abbott. And you've proven yourself to be a vastly superior campaigner to Malcolm Turnbull. So, really, all the pluses are on your side. I'm not knocking you. All the pluses are on your side.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, thank you, John. That's very generous. Look, I'm just pleased that, you know, we can just get on with the job. I think after the election this year the particular thing I heard expressed by Australians was relief and that we could just get back to stable and certain government, and particularly, you know, the times are quite uncertain. We know what's happening globally and we also know what's happening in the agricultural sector. I mean, our farm GDP, the size of our farm economy has obviously taken quite a hit as a result of the drought. That's to be expected in times of drought. That’s not the first time that's happened, as you and your listeners would know. You've just got to keep your head in these situations. I mean, a lot of people are running around at the moment getting all panicked and wanting crisis measures. Well, no, look, we just need to keep our heads, keep our discipline, not go and blow the Budget. I mean, that's what Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan did. They just, you know, spilt money everywhere in panic and crisis. And I don't think that's what the Australian people voted for. They want us to listen carefully to what the needs are and to respond to them in a very careful way, not blowing money, not raising people's taxes to put up welfare bills and all that sort of stuff. But just be sensible about things. And that's how we have to be are about responding to the drought. We're very committed. We all want the same thing here. Not everyone's going to agree on what the responses are, but there’s a fair bit of agreement. The National Farmers’ Federation came out yesterday with their recommendations and they align heavily with…
LAWS: I know that you recently spoke to one of the farmers who publicly raised concerns about a lack of drought relief.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, I did.
LAWS: Was he just in the dark? Did he know what was available or he didn't know what was available?
PRIME MINISTER: He said to me, when I went through all the things we were doing, particularly in the area of Farm Household Allowance. And just to remind people, I mean, we extended Farm Household Allowance so people can now get it four years in every 10. So that's a payment over four years of over $100,000. Now, on top of that, last year we made an additional payment of $12,000 for couples and $7,000 for singles. What we're doing today in the Parliament is that when people get to the end of their four years of that Farm Household Allowance, they will get an additional payment of $13,000 for couples and $7,500. So that's new news today on the John Laws programme. They will get that additional payment. And when I rang Mark through this… now, Mark lives up in Bourke, he runs the local swimming pool. He came off the land quite a number of years ago.
LAWS: He's a good, interesting fella.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, four years ago. And he used to have a citrus operation up there, he was producing that, but that was well before we got into the circumstances that we have now with the drought. And he runs the local swimming pool. In fact, he was pretty happy that we'd given Bourke Shire a grant to upgrade the swimming pool, which they are going to do next year. So when I ran him through all that, he said, well, Scott, that was the hope I was looking for and he said, well, I'm not quite sure why I don't know these things. So that just means I've got to get out more and more and more and more as I do and just explain what we're doing and once I explain to people what we're doing, I find that they can see the plan. It's to help people right now with real money, just like I was just saying. It's to help the communities as well. And that's a whole range of programs. That's the million dollars we've given to all these shires and they're doing a whole bunch of things. They're doing roadworks, they're actually also running community events with that money, which means the local suppliers get paid to do various things for those events. But importantly, it gets the community together, and when I've been out in rural and regional communities, they get so much support from each other when they get to come together and they are sprawling areas, as you know, and the excuse to get together for a Campdraft or whatever it happens to be is a great thing for the community. They connect with each other, they talk to each other, they help each other, they catch up, just for a short period.
LAWS: But I do think a lot of them are not aware of the help that is available. I don't know that has been promoted enough.
PRIME MINISTER: I agree. So I think we have to promote that more. And of course, and you've been saying this for forever, John, but you know, we've got a plan for the long term as well. And that's why I was up in Dungowan on the weekend and it's we're putting, together with the state government, the money in for that, as well as the other dams around the country and water projects. And the good thing for New South Wales and Victoria, for that matter, is when we bought and took over completely the Snowy Hydro scheme so the Commonwealth now fully owns that, the condition we gave to the state governments when we paid them the money, which was $6 billion, by the way, $4 billion in New South Wales and around $2 billion in Victoria, was it they had to invest all that money back in rural and regional infrastructure. So those dams that they’re building in New South Wales will be paid for by the money we gave them from buying Snowy.
LAWS: There you go. I mean, the impact of the drought has got to be very, very widespread, hasn't it? I mean, it's going to be having a whole lot of effect on the whole economy.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it is. It is. And we've seen a more than 10 per cent fall in farm GDP over the past year, and that's troubling. Obviously, it's troubling, but that's one of the reasons why we've been putting the money back into these drought-affected shires. Because while farmers will get Farm Household Allowance and we've also eased up on the rules for that. Now, if people are fortunate enough and one of the recommendations we got was that a lot of farmers, as you know, in these circumstances, they will go off-farm and get income where they can. They’ll work as contractors, they'll… often in the family, someone's a schoolteacher or something like that or a nurse, and they'll go and get a job in town or in other cases have to go further afield. So we've lifted the income threshold that applies to that payment. So you can now, with the change we're making, earn up to $100,000 off the farm and still get access to those other payments I was talking about and we’ve eased up on the rules a bit. So that’s putting real money - real money - in the hands of real farming families. But then you've got to put money into the shires because the towns have lost a lot of income from the farm incomes farming.
LAWS: But tell me this from what you're saying, and I don’t want to interrupt you, Prime Minister, from what you're saying, it sounds to me as though you're agreeing in principle with what Barnaby Joyce has said.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, he was the drought envoy I set up when I first became Prime Minister and his job was to go and listen to people and report back what they were saying to him. And what Barnaby was saying is you've got to ease up on this Farm Household Allowance on the rules and the complexity and that's really important. You've got to recognise the fact that people who are trying to help themselves are out there getting extra work to supplement the family. But then they're getting knocked over on access to Farm Household Allowance because they're hitting their heads on the income limit.
LAWS: Ok. But it's pretty tough for Barnaby to say some farmers should just walk away from the farm and get another job. I mean, many of those farmers have been in a family's hands for generations. That's not the kind of thing you just want to throw away. It's all very well for Barnaby to say, walk away and get another job. I mean, he gets a reasonable stipend from you and me and other taxpayers, doesn’t he?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the support we give is four years in every 10. So that's... I mean, no other part of the economy has an income support payment for when times are bad and in farming communities, times are bad because of what's happening with drought. But they can also access that in other circumstances. So if you're running a small business in, you know, on the Central Coast or something like that, if times are bad for you, you can't get access to those sorts of payments. So our support is over and above for rural and regional communities affected by drought, and it should be because it's an important part of our economy that needs to be kept in place, and so that's why we do it. But what I think the other point that Barnaby is making and look, I make a similar point to this extent - the government can't make things like it was before the drought. And we can't, in all cases, ensure that people won't face hard decisions during a drought. And where I get a bit frustrated, John, is when sometimes it's put out there that, you know, we can avoid these difficulties, and we can't do that, there's no miracle that does that other than rain. And, you know, I've been bagged for also suggesting that people should pray for rain. I do. I do regularly and my church does and I know so many churches all around the country are. And good for them. If you believe in that, that's your belief.
LAWS: Ok. But is it working?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, let's hope so. I'll keep at it. In the meantime, I’ll do the practical things of getting money to farmers, getting money into communities to support their local economies and also looking over the horizon. I mean, one thing we did, John, was we put $50 million dollars into grants because for those farmers who are drawing down on their farm management deposit scheme accounts - which is something also we've boosted as well - the best time to actually do a lot of this water infrastructure work is when the dams are full and so they can do further upgrade works on their on-farm water infrastructure. And we put $50 million dollars in and programmes to help them do that. And that also helps the local contractors as well. On top of that, we put $75 million dollars into accelerated depreciation for silage, it was another issue that came up really early that there wasn't enough silage storage facilities on farms. And so that’s why they weren't accumulating their fodder for the times when they need it. So as you can see, there's lots going on, John.
LAWS: Oh, a hell of a lot going on. Something I need to ask you, will you forgive Julian Assange and allow him to come home instead of being extradited to the USA?
PRIME MINISTER: We will allow those court processes to run their course.
LAWS: So there's a long way to go?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes.
LAWS: Do you have a personal opinion? Yes, you do, but you won't express it.
PRIME MINISTER: My personal opinion is it is a legal process that should run their course.
LAWS: I got it.
PRIME MINISTER: He should face the music.
LAWS: Yes. Well, I'm glad to hear you say that. He should face the music. All right, Prime Minister, it's been good to talk to you. I mean, thank you for your time and I got all the answers I was looking for and I didn't even have to ask you to swear on a Bible.
[Laughter]
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's great talking to you, John. I look forward to doing it again soon.
LAWS: Good on you and thank you very much, Prime Minister.
