Transcript - Radio Interview with Alan Jones, 2GB
15 October 2019
Prime Minister
ALAN JONES: Prime Minister good morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Good morning Alan.
JONES: Prime Minister, thank you for your time, it is appreciated. I know there have been endless announcements about drought and I don't want to talk to you in the brief time we have about harvesting water. I hope we can address that later because it addresses a problem down the track. But this is the here and now and I don't know whether you know it but as I see it a major political issue has now emerged over the response to the here and now. Can I ask you this - why if the drought response is adequate would a farmer write to me and say this, and I don't mean to offend, I'm just telling you what he said: ‘So you're going to interview Morrison - why bother? I guarantee Australia will have no more confidence in the Morrison Government after your interview than before. I guarantee there'll be no admission from Morrison that his government is seriously lacking in a number of crucial matters, that is the farmers. No implementation of a Bradfield-type scheme, no gas reservation policy, no new clean coal-fired power station, continuing taxpayer funding renewables and many more. After the interview, Alan, I'll email you and I told you so.’ How do you respond to that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Alan, what I'm doing is doing exactly what I told the Australian people I was going to do on whether it's on energy, on water, our support for farmers in the drought. And we just finished the most recent financial year where we put an additional $318.5 million in additional support to farmers and everything from additional support through the Farm Household Allowance, the support for mental health in communities, the funding that we've been putting into communities directly through local councils like up in Bourke Shire and doing that right across the country. On top of that, there are the investments we've been making in water infrastructure and we can talk a bit more about that. You know about the Dungowan announcement from the weekend where we upped our straight grant investment in that project from $75 million together with the other one at Wyangala to around $280 million, so that's a significant further investment. And so whether it's on the drought where we've got just around about $1.3 billion, actually $1.4 billion, that's going in over this period where we anticipate having to support during the drought and then on top of that you've got the Drought Future Fund. So wherever you look at it, it's meeting the immediate needs of farmers, it's about meeting the needs in communities that are affected by the drought and then it's investing for the longer term in the water infrastructure, which is not just dams. It’s pipelines, it’s water infrastructure, it’s on-farm turkey nests, it's all of those things.
JONES: I know you're committed to dams or whatever. I'm talking about that down the track. Some of these farmers won't be alive when that happens. You know, I sent you this call and for the integrity of this interview, I'm sorry, I know you've heard this but for other listeners around Australia, I have to play this. This is a call on Friday. If all of what you say is true - I sent this to you - but in the interests of those who may not have heard it, this is the call that's now been heard by almost 500,000 Australians. Half a million Australians and it has inspired thousands and thousands of comments. I just want to play this and ask you the question - if everything you say is true, why this kind of call to me?
CALLER: I'm calling because at the last election I voted for Scott Morrison. I voted for him because I thought he was our hope. I'm out here in the back of Bourke, mate, our river is going to be dry at the end of December. I’ve got four kids and three of them have moved away because we've got no hope out here. Now, we’re a tough mob out here, we’re a tough mob out here, Alan We are a real tough mob, we put up with drought and we put up with dust storms but we always have hope. Now, I’m an old football coach like you and when I used to coach sides and we'd get beaten I’d say, ‘Don’t worry, fellas, next time we play them, we've got to do this.’ Well, we’ve got no hope, mate. Scott’s not saying to us, he not saying, ‘Listen, we’ve got to build a weir, we’ve got to build a dam, don't worry when it rains.’ We know it’ll rain, we’ve been out here for a bloody 150 years, mate. We know it’s going to rain. But what’s going to happen when it rains? Are we going to be back in this situation? Give us some bloody hope, Scott. My town is dying, the country is dying, and you’re not giving us hope. I’ve got a son that lives in Ballina, he rings me up. I say, ‘When are you coming home? When are you coming home to see me and mum, mate?’ He said, ‘Why, Dad? Why? There’s nothing out there.’ He says there’s nothing to come home to.
JONES: Prime Minister, if everything you say is correct… now look, the correspondence I've had from this is confirmation of the sentiments this man is expressing. Now, you talk about, you know, Farm Household Allowance which is $250 a week. You talk about mental health down the track and so on now.
PRIME MINISTER: No, now.
JONES: Well, now. How do you respond? I mean, I've got to a stack...
PRIME MINISTER: I did, I rang Mark yesterday and he and I had a good conversation yesterday. Mark, he runs the local swimming pool up in Bourke and his wife works as a nurse in Bourke.
JONES: I understand all that.
PRIME MINISTER: His dad is the Mayor. He left the land four years ago.
JONES: I know that. He’s a spokesman for the communities.
PRIME MINISTER: I know, I spoke to him yesterday and what I did yesterday is I took him through all the things that I just talked to you about. And he wasn't aware of those things. Now Alan, if you could let me finish, I spoke to him at some length. I took him through all the things we were doing from the issues on water infrastructure through to the supports on Farm Household Allowance and the changes we've made to it, how much we're investing in that in the community. His dad who is the local Mayor said that the money we put into Bourke Shire they were very grateful for. We put a million dollars that they’re going to spend on upgrading his swimming pool next year. And at the end of the conversation, Alan, this is what he said to me. He said this is the hope I was looking for, Scott. That's what Mark said to me yesterday and we had a very good conversation. But I tell you what Mark was also raising with me, Alan, and the issue was not just about drought but it's about the future of rural and regional communities. Droughts are terrible and they are used to dealing with them up in Bourke, but it's about the longer term viability of these towns. Now, that's why he raised the Bourke Weir with me and I'll be taking that up with the state governments. Obviously, it’s a state government issue. But whether it's that piece of water infrastructure, which can guarantee greater support for the town, that's the importance of the Dungowan Dam which Barnaby has been raising for some time because that secures the future confidence of investors and people investing in Tamworth and the Peel Valley region.
JONES: I know, PM, listen. We know all that. Can I just say to my listeners, by the way, that the Prime Minister was away on Friday. I've got to be fair here. And when he heard about all of this he asked me for the names of some farmers he could ring and to be fair to the Prime Minister he is making these personal phone calls which is very reassuring. But can I just say this to you and I'm not on bended knee but I'm getting close - you're talking about long term viability. I'm talking about today. Right now, the farmers cannot afford any longer fodder and water to keep their breeding stock alive and they can't afford to get it from where it is to where they need it. Now, after years, not months, of drought, why no one in government can tell us - certainly not the global warming advocate Littleproud - no one can tell us how many farms are diabolical today in need, where they are, are they beef, are they sheep, are they horse, are they pig, are they dairy? How many families are involved? Where are they? Now, these people, Prime Minister, cannot survive today. They are sending the breeding stock to the saleyard to be slaughtered. They're walking off their farms. They need cash now, now, just as we gave a billion dollars to Indonesia over a tsunami. This is a drought tsunami and they need cash to feed their breeding stock so they don't have to sell. They can't afford the feed, they can't afford the water and they can't afford the freight. Now, you’re saying we've got a freight subsidy - they can't afford anything. And as I said to one farmer, and I told you this a week ago, I said how are the banks going? And he just looked at me with this forlorn look and he said, ‘How much further can you go beyond $1.3 million?’ Prime Minister, they're gone, they're gone. They have to, they can't survive today. I'm not talking about long-term viability. What can you do today by way of cash injection to individual farmers to enable them to keep their breeding stock and not send them to the saleyard for slaughter?
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, as I just said to you in my first response to your first question, the direct cash grant support going into farming communities, including directly to farmers…
JONES: They’re not getting it. They’re not getting it.
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, if you could let me finish, is $318.5 million. Now, we’re going to do a…
JONES: I don't know where the money is, Prime Minister, I don’t know where it is.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I can tell you where it is if you give me…
JONES: Where?
PRIME MINISTER: You've asked me to come on the programme and I’m happy to do it, love to, and let me tell you where that $318 million goes. There was a $129.5 million which was extending the Farm Household Allowance.
JONES: $250 a week.
PRIME MINISTER: There was $5 million in rural financial counselling services.
JONES: Counselling.
PRIME MINISTER: There was $115.8 million that went directly into communities, drought communities, into individual shires, a million dollars in each.
JONES: PM, how does that feed a cow? PM, how does that feed a cow?
PRIME MINISTER: I’d like to answer you…
JONES: How does that feed a cow, PM?
PRIME MINISTER: And I’m sure your listeners would like to know where that $300 million-plus has gone in the past year. $15 million to help them with looking after the pests and weeds on their property. There's...
JONES: How does that feed a cow? How does that feed a cow?
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, if you’ve got pests and weeds which are running…
JONES: Oh, PM, don’t talk to me. I’m a farmer’s son, you’re not.
PRIME MINISTER: Farmers are telling us directly, Alan. And as you know, the fodder subsidies and the freight subsidies are provided by state governments. That's part of the National Drought Agreement.
JONES: They can’t afford their component of the subsidy, they can't afford it.
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, what I'm telling you is that the fodder subsidies and the freight subsidies are handled by state governments. The direct financial…
JONES: I know, it’s a national disaster, PM. Take over the whole show. Why don’t you take over the whole show? It’s a national disaster. You say Farm Household Allowance. Now, PM, come on. You go and tell Jenny that she can live on 250 bucks a week. They get $250 a week.
PRIME MINISTER: It’s not just $250 a week, Alan.
JONES: It’s $250 a week.
PRIME MINISTER: It's not just that because unlike any other form of income support in the country... if you live in the city and your business goes bust or you lose your job, then you have access to Newstart and that's available to everybody across the country.
JONES: How does that feed a cow and to keep it alive?
PRIME MINISTER: But if you are on a farm property and you are a farmer or a grazier you get access during drought periods, and not just in drought periods, to the Farm Household Allowance.
JONES: Well, PM, why are they walking off? Why are they walking off? Why are they sending their cattle to slaughter? If we lose the breeding stock…
PRIME MINISTER: Because it’s a drought, Alan, that's why.
JONES: Well, how can you make sure we don't send our breeding stock to slaughter?
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, there is... the government, whether it's state, federal or anyone else, we can do a lot of things to help people try and get through this. But the government cannot make it rain. And the government can't make life as it was before the drought. And if anyone is suggesting that could be done then they are lying to the people of rural and regional Australia.
JONES: I'm asking you… we know that.
PRIME MINISTER: That is an unrealistic expectation.
JONES: We know that, PM, seriously.
PRIME MINISTER: So we will keep investing, Alan.
JONES: No.
PRIME MINISTER: We will keep investing and keep responding. And I was at the National Farmers Federation 40th anniversary last night.
JONES: I know.
PRIME MINISTER: And the number of farmers who came up to me and said we thank the government for the support they're providing.
JONES: Well, I must be talking to none of them. I must see none of them. PM, I'm asking you again the question - in anything you've said to me today, how does that encourage a farmer to say as a result of what Scott Morrison told Alan Jones today I won't have to sell my cattle, my breeding stock? I will be able to feed them next week. I will be able to get the fodder and water which I can't afford now and I will be able to get it from Victoria but I can't afford the freight now. How in anything that you have said to me today will we be able to prevent the farmers from selling their breeding stock and if you sell the breeding stock then the rural industry is dead.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it depends on each farm, Alan. There are farmers with farm management deposit schemes, there are farmers who are accessing farm household allowance, there are farmers who in many instances…
JONES: But no one can tell me where the farms are, Scott. No one can tell us where the farms are.
PRIME MINISTER: We've been doing a lot of work on that since the Drought Summit…
JONES: But no, you’ve got this Major General Stephen Day, you’ve got this Stephen Day…
PRIME MINISTER: Alan, if you stop talking over me then I could probably answer your question. If you could stop talking over me…
JONES: Well, could you just tell me why Stephen Day hasn’t released his report? He's the co-ordinator general for drought.
PRIME MINISTER: He provided that report to the government and the report will go and it's coming through Cabinet at present and his report has already informed so much of what we've done already.
JONES: Well why can't we see it? Why can’t we see the report?
PRIME MINISTER: The Cabinet is finalising its final response to that report, in the same way that the work that Barnaby Joyce did for us ensured that we could change a lot of the elements of the Farm Household Allowance. One of the things Barnaby told us was that when you're doing the Farm Household Allowance you've got to ease up on when there's off-farm income that people have gone and earned because if they can't earn money on the farm, so they've gone into town and they're earning money there where they can and in some cases they've gone into the city and they're sending money back to the farm. So you can't count all that money when you're assessing their eligibility for Farm Household Allowance. So we've made that change as well. Now, Alan, I know - we both want the same thing. We want the farmers and the communities to be able to get through this drought but we can't kid ourselves that there is a magic wand and a magic cash splash that is going to make this thing totally solved.
JONES: We gave Indonesia a billion bucks without asking any questions.
PRIME MINISTER: We’re doing more than that in the drought, Alan. We’re doing more than that, we’re doing seven times that.
JONES: I wish we had an hour and a half to talk because there are so many issues.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there will be plenty more opportunities, I have no doubt.
JONES: I hope so, but let me just ask you this one question. Ok. One of the worst pieces of legislation for a farmer ever - and this is not yours - this was the National Water Initiative in 2004 which separated land ownership from water rights. Since then, you can own and trade water rights. We have an outfit called Duxton Water who state openly that their, quote, ‘Primary objective is to’, quote, ‘Generate annual income through capitalising on the increasing demand for scarce water resources.’ Now, when are we going to say that we can't have a private outfit like Duxton Water earning enough water to fill the Woronora Dam carrying over their water assets each year so that they can increase their profits and such that the Murray River zone the price of irrigated war has gone from a $135 a megalitre to $800 a megalitre. Will you revoke the legislation, prevent people or companies which don't own land from actually owning water?
PRIME MINISTER: We initiated a review by the ACCC into this, they’re the cop on the beat on this very issue for the very concerns that you've raised. So that is underway right now. I mean, as you know that legislation, which basically created a water trading market in Australia, that was done 15 years ago.
JONES: Ok.
PRIME MINISTER: It’s been running since that time and these issues that not just you have raised but many people have raised, that's why we've initiated that review by the ACCC to get to the bottom of the impact of how that is affecting the water price and particularly the impact of speculators. That’s a genuine problem.
JONES: I don't know whether it suits either of us but we’re beaten by the bell. We must, must talk again. These are very critical issues. I thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.
JONES: Not at all. Scott Morrison.
