Doorstop - Washington DC, USA

21 September 2021

PRIME MINISTER: Well, good evening here from Washington. On the way in from the airport, we learned of the earthquake which has occurred in Mansfield in Victoria. Geoscience has provided us with the advice of a record of six, with aftershocks of five and a half, four and four. I’ve been in contact with Premier Andrews, as well as the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister McKenzie, and we'll continue to receive reports as, throughout the night. Of course, that first response has obviously been provided by the Victorian Government. And, of course, the Federal Government stands by, through Emergency Management Australia, to provide whatever assistance is needed, whether from the ADF or others. But, at this stage, we have had no reports of serious injuries or worse. And, that is, that is very good news, and we hope that that good news will continue. But, obviously, we'll get further reports as as the night unfolds here in the United States. But, it can be a very, very disturbing event, for an earthquake of this nature. They are not, they are very rare events in Australia. And, and as a result, I'm sure people would have been quite distressed and disturbed by that, particularly in the most immediate area affected. But, the agencies, at a state government level, are there, responding. And, of course, the Federal Government will provide the support that is necessary, and we'll be in touch further with the Premier, I suspect, throughout the night. But, back in Australia, that will be done by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Emergency Management.

JOURNALIST: What did you say to Premier Dan Andrews about it?

PRIME MINISTER: We've just been in text contact tonight. He’s dealing directly with the issues. So, he's aware of that, and and the Deputy Prime Minister will continue to interact with him and and be in contact with me overnight.

JOURNALIST: Did you speak to him about the protests in Melbourne and what he’s doing … ?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, no, we didn't have a conversation. We just had a text.

JOURNALIST: Did you text about it?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, these are matters that are being handled back in Australia. Those, those events in Melbourne, of the protests, are very concerning. There’s, there’s, that is unacceptable behaviour, and particularly at a time when those in Victoria are dealing with lockdowns and many other stresses. This is, this is very concerning. But, tonight, my primary concerns are those with the, with the earthquake, and making sure the response is there for the people who are in need.

JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, now that you've had time to consider the meetings that you had today, and in particular the comment from the European Council about transparency and loyalty, is this the reaction you expected from the European Union to your decision?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, subsequent to those, those comments being made, we had the opportunity, over about a 50-minute meeting, to inform the President of the European Council about these events, and that was a very good opportunity to inform. And I think that has greatly assisted the situation and that understanding of the nature of the agreements we've entered into and the arrangements that we weren't able to proceed with with the, with the French SOE Naval. And I think that all of those issues are much better understood now.

JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, have you got a message for those people who have been out protesting in Melbourne?

PRIME MINISTER: My message is very straightforward, and that is, none of us are above the law. And it's important that at a time like this - I know it is difficult when there are lockdown restrictions that are being put in place - these are, these are measures that we've seen in other states when it comes to the construction sector and the outbreak. The same, similar arrangements were put in place in New South Wales. And I think it's just very important that we exercise that patience and we get through what is a very difficult time. The COVID Disaster Assistance Payment - which has been made available right across Victoria, right across New South Wales, the ACT - for those who have a loss of income, then that is there to support them at this time, as it has been in other states and territories. So, I, look, I think it's important, I can understand that people would be concerned about the shut down of the construction industry. These are important jobs and they will return. We will get through this. But, the protest activity and what we've seen there, I think, is highly distressing, and that is not an appropriate response to trying to deal with an outbreak of this nature.

JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, this is the largest earthquake that Australia has ever experienced. How do you feel being out of the country when this has occurred?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, that, of course, is unavoidable, and these things are certainly not predictable. I’m concerned to know what the facts are. I’m pleased that the reports, so far that I've received, are not of of serious injuries and things of that nature. That's very welcome news. But, of course, these are early reports. And, so, I remain concerned. And I asked the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister to keep me informed of of developments. Joe Buffone at Emergency Management Australia is liaising with the state authorities. And these are very professional people. And regardless of whether it's a flood or a bushfire or an earthquake or a cyclone, we have some of the best disaster response agencies anywhere in the world, if not the best. And I know that those who may be in distress tonight, during the day there in Melbourne and across Victoria today, will be well looked after and well attended to in terms of the, any needs that they have.

JOURNALIST: Prime Minister, Boris Johnson apparently wants to ask you to loosen travel restrictions to save the Ashes. Has he asked you that, and would you do that?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, we haven't met yet, so ...

JOURNALIST: Well, he's going to ask you tonight.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I can't, let’s just see. I'm sure we'll talk about …

JOURNALIST: Would you do that?

PRIME MINISTER: I'm sure we'll talk about many things tonight. Boris and I are very good friends, and I'm looking forward to catching up with him this evening. It's, we've we've achieved a lot together as our two countries, and I'm looking forward to continuing that relationship tonight. I'm looking forward to Australians being able to travel again and and for Australians to be able to return to to Australia. That's what the national plan is all about. I'm very pleased to see some some more great figures in terms of vaccination rates today, sent to me by the Minister for Health. And these these vaccination rates, we’re at almost three quarters of the country now with a first dose, and we’ll be at one in two having received a second dose very, very soon. So, we keep that up, people will be able, will be able to travel again, and and particularly in those states that are achieving those marks, and I want to encourage everyone across Australia to go and get that jab. I'm particularly pleased to see the very high rates of vaccination of children aged 12 to 15. We're only a week down, pretty much, and we're seeing some some really strong levels of vaccination. I strongly support the measures taken by the Minister for Health now that we've seen, received that news about the successful trials that are being undertaken with children under 12. And we've invited, of course, Pfizer to bring forward that information and to progress that through the TGA, and to enable us to be in a position where we can provide those vaccines, should the TGA approve them for use. Thanks very much, everyone.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43584

Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News

20 September 2021

Kieran Gilbert: Why is the ANZUS alliance important to mark this 70th anniversary which of course, has been ticked off this month? 

Prime Minister: Because it is the bedrock of our safety and security in this part of the world. It has guaranteed our safety for 70 years. It is the foundational principle, the foundation platform that the US has acknowledged in my discussion with President Biden the other day, he also referred to as the bedrock of stability here in the Indo-Pacific and for Australia, importantly, it enables us to move forward with confidence, to be able to plan for our future. Knowing that partnering with the United States in a positive way within our region creates a more stable, safer and more secure region where we can engage with countries in our region. We can trade, we can do all of these things. It provides that balance. It provides that stability. It provides that shelter under which all of us in Australia live. 

Gilbert: Can we rely on the United States, particularly in the current climate of a more inward looking approach? 

Prime Minister: Oh, absolutely. See, I've never doubted the alliance. And, you know, a lot is said, a lot of criticisms are made of the United States. I've heard them all. Oh this is them gone this time. This is them gone. And you know what? Look, they're an amazing nation and they're a resilient nation. And they're a nation that is innovative, that believes passionately in freedom. I mean, the very peace that we've had since the Second World War, all of the institutions that maintain that were actually established by the visionaries in the United States after the Second World War. And that architecture, the rule of law, all of these things that is applied through all the institutions, provides the certainty in which we live right now. The United States is a determined nation, a great friend of Australia. And I don't think that, certainly in my mind, is ever in question.

Gilbert: You spoke to President Biden as you mentioned, and there are plans for face to face talks. 

Prime Minister: Yes. 

Gilbert: How important is it for leaders to build a rapport in this alliance framework? 

Prime Minister: Oh, look, it's very important. It brings together all the things that happen behind the scenes at various levels of the relationship. We've seen it most recently in relationship with the United Kingdom for example, and the securing of the free trade agreement there. At the end of the day, Boris and I had to sit in a room over some lamb and crunch the deal.

Gilbert: You did have a very good rapport with Donald Trump, they rolled out the red carpet for you at the White House. Are we seeing at the moment with, I think of the Pfizer requests that they really haven't been that helpful, it was the UK that helped us, not the US, is that partly because the Biden administration hasn't yet warmed to us? 

Prime Minister: No. No. 

Gilbert: So what's your view on that? 

Prime Minister: My view is that the United States, together with Japan, ourselves, India in the Quad relationship in so many other ways, is carrying a huge burden in terms of getting vaccines right across the developing world. And that's where so much of their focus is. And so no, I didn't read that in, read anything into that at all, because we continue to work on so many other issues together that are so critical to us here in the Indo-Pacific. Our national security interests, the security of our region. We've had tremendous support from them in the region on some of the more contentious issues here. And they have not been at all backward in coming and supporting our strong positions here about our own sovereignty and about our own security. They've been a faithful friend. 

Gilbert: Has the mission in Afghanistan been a failure? Has it reduced the American prestige internationally? 

Prime Minister: No, I don't believe so, ultimately. I understand that view in the moment. Of course I do. I mean, it has been a terrible, terrible episode in that engagement coming to an end. It's not clear to me how it was ever going to come to an end in any markedly different way, if we're really honest about it. We were there for 20 years. We were there for the right reasons. We were there to deny Osama bin Laden a base from which to operate. The Americans had been very clear all those years ago. Hand him over. The Taliban said no. So we turned up with our American friends and many others and, and got that job done. After that occurred, though, the situation changed, a great vacuum had been created in Afghanistan and we were all there and sought over many, many years to make a failed state a successful one. Now, many have tried that in the past in that part of the world, and they've also not seen a great deal of success. But I do know this, for 20 years, that threat of global terror that was able to base itself out of Afghanistan was denied. And the countries and there are many, well not too many, that really enabled the Taliban and others, were not any actions of the United States, quite the contrary, but those who gave safe harbour and comfort to the Taliban, and that is, that is a great tragedy. 

Gilbert: Boris Johnson and Emmanuel Macron argued, apparently at the G7 emergency talks around Afghanistan, that they wanted the deadline extended. Were you on the same page as them on that? Would you have liked more time? 

Prime Minister: Of course, and communicated that in support of their position at the time. But ultimately, that was always going to be a function of the security situation on the ground. I have no doubt that if the United States were able to extend that and to provide more time to get people out, then they would have done so. But the security of the situation on the ground did not lend itself to that. And we know that quite, quite tragically, the suicide bomber at the Abbey Gate that took 13 American lives. I mean, that is just such a tragedy that at those very last hours, while American soldiers were trying to provide a path to freedom for people, they were met with that terror. Now, Australians had been there not that long before, not that long before. And so the US presence there over the course of that evacuation, 4,100 people we were able to airlift out of there in a very, very dangerous situation. I remember at the start of this operation, saying to the team, we need to go as quickly as we can and as safely as we can because we don't know how many days we're going to have. And that's exactly what they did. And they did a terrific job and saved thousands and thousands of lives. 

Gilbert: What message does this vacuum now, essentially vacuum of US authority certainly, an allied authority in that part of the world, say to China and other rivals internationally, in terms of potentially them stepping in to fill that void and have greater influence in countries like Afghanistan, particularly in this context? 

Prime Minister: Well, I think what you're seeing is a shift in US thinking and US policy as to where their major focus in the world is. And it's right here. It's right here in the Indo-Pacific. I mean, we've seen the focus of US attention shift over the years. I mean, immediately after the Second World War building those great international institutions, the rebuilding of Europe, the rebuilding of Japan, the Marshall Plan, all of this, it was an extraordinary achievement in world reconstruction that the US led. Their attention then moved more towards the Middle East over the time we've been talking about. And at the same time we've seen the US achieve something they had been seeking to do since the time of Nixon, and that was to achieve energy security, which they have now done. The US is now very focused on the Indo-Pacific. And that is very important for Australia. That is very much in Australia's national interest, very much in our interests. And it's something that we have long encouraged, and I have particularly encouraged. 

Gilbert: In the context of that and in the context of your talks with Quad leaders, explain to us the importance of the Quad to the Indo-Pacific and to regional security, if you can. 

Prime Minister: Look, first of all, it's a positive initiative to ensure the Indo-Pacific can realise its goals. Australia has a wonderful relationship with the ASEAN countries, and we've always seen the operation of the Quad as serving that ASEAN vision. Enabling ASEAN. That's why at our first leaders meeting, we were talking about vaccine deployment. We were talking about energy technologies and how that can assist developing countries achieve their economic goals, but also their climate goals. And we've talked about critical technologies as well. So there is, you know, we've focused on things like the Mekong region and so on. The Quad is a positive influence in the region that is more than about defence and security, but it is about enabling the independence and sovereignty of the Indo-Pacific region. Freedom of movement, through the seas, through the air, all of this which enables the Indo-Pacific region to be successful in the future. It's the most dynamic region in the world. And there are countries, our friends, our neighbours, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, so many countries that we want to see realise their future. Now, the Quad is a great partner. It's a positive partner. It's not a partner that is to the exclusion of others. It is a partner that is designed to help the Indo-Pacific prosper. And, you know, when the Indo-Pacific prospers, so does Australia. 

Gilbert: Now, we've spoken about the cooperation with the United States and the very strong links that we have for military to business, people to people links and so on. There is a point of difference that we have at the moment between the Biden administration, certainly in terms of their emphasis on climate, it’s one of their, their biggest foreign policy.

Prime Minister: Quite different from the last administration too.

Gilbert: It's been quite a shift, it’s been a shift, no doubt about that. What's your view at the moment in the lead up to COP, the climate talks in Glasgow about Joe Biden and his Administration’s wish, hope, urging that we are more ambitious? 

Prime Minister: Well, first of all, Australia is achieving. That's the first point that I often make, that Australia is achieving even more than the United States when it comes to this. 20 per cent fall in emissions. Our uptake of rooftop solar, our investments in renewables they outstrip so many countries around the world. So we're on the path. We're on the path, and we're part of the solution. And the solution is importantly about this. If we want to ensure that we live in a new energy economy where net zero is achieved around the world, that is only going to happen if the technologies that enable that are at a critical mass all around the world. It's not good enough and we must strive to achieve these. That's why we've embarked on our energy technology plan to transform our energy economy here in Australia so we can meet these net zero goals into the future. But that's not enough. Unless it works in Indonesia, in Vietnam, in China, in India, well, we don't, we don’t achieve the goal. And so the way that will be delivered is if we can ensure that this technology is scalable, affordable and practical in all of those countries. When we've got hydrogen being used in Indonesia, when we've got carbon capture use and storage technologies being employed in Vietnam for their power stations, when we are achieving that in all of those countries, because it makes economic sense for them to do it, then we know we're making progress. And that's my message. And that's where I think the world needs to [inaudible]. 

Gilbert: They also want you to be more ambitious, in terms of targets. 

Prime Minister: Well, our ambition won't be a problem because we achieve our ambition. You know, ambitions are fine so long as you achieve them. And every single mark we've hit, we've met. We've set, we've met. And we'll continue to do that. We understand that the energy economy is changing and it'll change massively over the next 30 years. And I intend for Australia to be successful and in the middle and driving key elements of that new energy economy. And that will be great for Australian regions. But it will also be great for our partners, because whether it's in Indonesia or Vietnam or anywhere else, we want to ensure that they're on the same path. Because otherwise, what we're saying to the developing world is this, well we just want to pay you to sit home and do nothing. No, those countries deserve to have jobs. They deserve to have an economic future fuelled by a clean energy economy, which we want to be part of and help them establish commercially so they're sustainable. They deserve that. They're our friends. And if they're successful, well, so will we be. 

Gilbert: Prime Minister Scott Morrison, I appreciate your time, thanks.

Prime Minister: Thanks Kieran.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43580

Future Hydrogen Industry to Create Jobs, Lower Emissions and Boost Regional Australia

20 September 2021

Prime Minister, Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction

Joint Media Release

The Hon. Scott Morrison MP
Prime Minister

The Hon. Angus Taylor MP
Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction

The Morrison Government’s $1.2 billion hydrogen investment is set to increase, boosting economic activity and jobs in regional Australia.

An additional $150 million for a further two locations under the Clean Hydrogen Industrial Hubs program will enable the rollout of hydrogen hubs across seven priority regional sites.

Hydrogen is a clean fuel of the future, and Australia will commercialise this technology by co-locating hydrogen production and industrial uses, and building on the infrastructure and workforces of regional areas.

Hubs will consolidate Australia’s natural resource strengths to unlock cheap, clean energy and stimulate a potential surge in industrial activity.

Government funding will help to de-risk projects and quickly achieve the scale necessary to establish new export industries and meet the growing energy needs of the Indo Pacific region.

The now $464 million grant program provides up to $3 million grants for project consortia to initially progress feasibility and design work, and up to $70 million towards the roll-out of projects.

Seven prospective locations across Australia have been identified and include: Bell Bay (TAS), Darwin (NT), Eyre Peninsula (SA), Gladstone (QLD), Latrobe Valley (VIC), Hunter Valley (NSW), and Pilbara (WA).

Prime Minster Scott Morrison said these hydrogen hubs would create jobs across Australia and fast-track Australia’s push to be a global leader in the new energy economy.

“Our plan to invest and develop low emissions industries will mean more jobs for Australian workers, particularly in our regions, cheaper energy for businesses and lower emissions,” the Prime Minister said.

“We are accelerating the development of our Australian hydrogen industry and it is our ambition to produce the cheapest clean hydrogen in the world, transforming our transport, energy, resources and manufacturing sectors.

“This is good for jobs, good for our environment and contributes to our global effort to reduce emissions through technology not taxes.”

Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction Angus Taylor said Clean Hydrogen Industrial Hubs will create the domestic demand needed to help the hydrogen industry drive down costs and scale-up production creating new job opportunities for our regions.

“Hydrogen hubs are crucial to realising the Morrison Government’s vision of making Australia a major global player in hydrogen production and exports by 2030,” Minister Taylor said.

“We are looking to partner with industry, and work with state and territory governments to make this a reality.

“Australia has the potential to be a world leader in the production of affordable and clean hydrogen, and our hydrogen industry could create around 8,000 new Australian jobs and generate over $11 billion a year in GDP by 2050.

“The development of Clean Hydrogen Industrial Hubs would help the emerging industry work towards achieving the stretch goal of hydrogen production at under $2 a kilogram under the government’s Technology Investment Roadmap.

“Accelerating the commercial deployment of priority low emissions technologies such as hydrogen so they reach cost parity with higher emissions alternatives is critical to Australia’s technology led approach to reducing emissions.

“A thriving hydrogen sector will help Australia to achieve its emission-reduction goals while continuing to grow our economy and support existing industries.”

Hydrogen hubs, as identified by the National Hydrogen Strategy as a priority measure, will create economies of scale by co-locating hydrogen producers, users and exporters in one location.

The Clean Hydrogen Industrial Hub Grants program will build on the work being done by the Special Adviser on Low Emissions Technology, Dr Alan Finkel, to broker international partnerships and initiatives that will accelerate the deployment of hydrogen and other priority low emissions technologies.

Cooperation on hydrogen forms part of new low emissions partnerships with Germany, Singapore, Japan and the United Kingdom announced in 2021.

While the hydrogen program is open Australia-wide, the seven locations have been identified based on strong interest and activity from industry and each location’s existing capabilities, infrastructure and resources.

Program guidelines are now available at business.gov.au, with applications to open in the coming weeks.

The Hub Implementation Grants round will support Australian industry to roll-out and establish clean hydrogen industrial hub projects in regional Australia, with co-funded grants up to $70 million available.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43579

Interview with Neil Mitchell, 3AW

17 September 2021

Neil Mitchell: Scott Morrison, good morning.

Prime Minister: Good morning, Neil.

Mitchell: Thanks for your time. Just, firstly, 510 new cases here.

Prime Minister: Yeah.

Mitchell: One death. We've got, what, 386 mystery cases.

Prime Minister: Yeah.

Mitchell: Do you worry we’re heading the same way as New South Wales?

Prime Minister: Well, that's, that's, when you track what the progression of the outbreak has been in Victoria against what it has been in New South Wales, it's a very similar trajectory. In fact, it's slightly higher when you look at it. And, but, what that says is that the Delta strain is a very persistent and very virulent strain. And despite, you know, the lockdowns can keep it somewhat suppressed, but it continues to grow. And that's what they've learnt in New South Wales, and they’re some weeks ahead. And that's why the vaccination rates are just so important. And to give you some update on that, the most recent vaccination figures have come through, Neil. So, telling you here first - 70.25 per cent is the first dose vaccination rate in Victoria, 42.94 per cent for second dose in Victoria. So, those numbers continue to go up. Good news that under, 12 to 15s, that's around about 10 per cent now have had their first dose. And that, so that's great. That's only been going very recently. And across the country, over 300,000 doses - 70.5 per cent, we've now reached that on first doses around the country; 45.4 on second. And 24 million doses in total around the country.

Mitchell: Well, we're looking at pretty good double vax, well, 80 per cent double vaccination, with a bit of luck by early December, aren't we?

Prime Minister: Look, I think, well, I think we're tracking well. I mean, General Frewen I think made a very good point, and that is, you know, we just don't take anything for granted. We've seen in other countries, once you get to higher levels, you've got to keep stressing the need for this. But, again, in Australia, because of the national plan and how it's set out, there's always those marks to reach and the greater return we get back to where we want to be, the higher the vaccination rates go. The other thing that's good in that, Neil, is that the most recent vaccination rates for aged care workers now at first dose is just, it’s about 97 per cent. And, so, those mandatory requirements that we put in took some time to get them in. But, they've done the job, and that means that that's been a very effective way to get that done.

Mitchell: Prime Minister, on to the international matters, The Global Times, the voice for the Chinese Government, says you have made Australia a nuclear target. Do you accept there’s some truth in that?

Prime Minister: Look, what I understand is what we've done is what Australia should do in its national interests. There's all sorts of talk that is, that is said, I don't think that supports peace and stability in the region. That's what our goal is. And I think it should be all of our goals, who live and operate within the Indo-Pacific to be pursuing that, and that doesn't seem to be very conducive to that type of an outcome.

Mitchell: I couldn't agree more, but is it, is it not also reality that it does push us up the list as a nuclear target?

Prime Minister: Look, Australia has to stand up for itself and protect its interests and keep Australians safe, and and we will just always do that. And look, I note those comments, but I don't intend to respond to them. It's important that everyone in the region focus on stability, peace and security. That's what we're doing. We encourage all other partners and nations in the region to do the same.

Mitchell: That's exactly what the Chinese Foreign Affairs spokesman says you have undermined, or we have undermined - peace and stability, peace and stability in the region.

Prime Minister: I don't, I don’t share that view. I don’t, I know many others in the region don't share that view. I mean, China themselves undertake investments in their own national defence in their national interests, and that's not surprising. And I don't know why it would be surprising that Australia and other partners would do the same.

Mitchell: But, so, you do accept that the region is now, and this is one of the reasons you're doing this, the region is far more tense [inaudible] than it was.

Prime Minister: Oh, of course it is. Yeah, no, that's absolutely the case. And we have to deal with the world as it is, not as we'd like it to be. And we try and make it as we'd like it to be - a more peaceful and a more stable place - and that's what everyone in the region wants. And Australia's decision has been well-received in the region because the purposes are understood. And we just want to ensure that right throughout the region there can be free movement of goods and services and maritime traffic and air traffic, and the rule of law applies. There are no sort of special zones in international waters. There are only international waters, and they’re the rules by which the world should operate. And that's how the Indo-Pacific should operate.

Mitchell: They're also talking about Australian military losing their lives in the South China Sea. Is this just propaganda or is this, is this really coming from Government?

Prime Minister: I think you've, I think you've offered an astute observation, Neil.

Mitchell: Yeah, but it is, I mean, The Global Times is a government arm, isn't it, really? More so than the ABC.

Prime Minister: We're focused on what we need to do to protect Australia's national security, to work with our partners. I mean, this is a, an historic-level agreement. At no other time, other than with the United Kingdom back in 1958, has the United States shared its technology on nuclear submarines. So, this puts Australia in a very, very special arrangement, a one off, as the White House was saying yesterday. And that's great for Australia. It's important for Australia, because the world is complex and it's changing and it's competitive and there are tensions and we know that. And, so, of course, we'll do things that seek to try and stabilise that.

Mitchell: Do you expect some sort of economic retribution from China?

Prime Minister: I couldn't see how that could be justified.

Mitchell: It doesn't mean it won't happen. Do you expect it?

Prime Minister: Well, we will continue to improve our resilience, and deal with any challenges that we have to address, and largely that's what we're doing as part of this arrangement.

Mitchell: So, we have to be ready for it? We've got to be prepared for it, do we?

Prime Minister: Well, we always have to be resilient. We always have to do what's in Australia's national interests, and that's what this agreement delivers.

Mitchell: The Foreign Affairs spokesman also said he had no knowledge of you directly offering bilateral talks with the Chinese President. Let’s get it clear - do you want bilateral talks with China?

Prime Minister: Of course, it's always been our position. There's never been any obstacle to that on Australia's side. None whatsoever.

Mitchell: Do you accept that what's happened here has made China, though, a more significant enemy of Australia?

Prime Minister: No.

Mitchell: When will these subs be in the water? Looks like 20 years. Both Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd are saying that's too long. What do we do in the meantime, if it’s 20 years off?

Prime Minister: No, it's no, it's not that. And in the next 18 months we’ll sort of prove up those timeframes. We anticipate the build commencing this decade and and we anticipate that before the end of next decade that we'll have the first in the water, just was was the case with the Attack class submarines. But, what we will have continuing to be in the water is the Collins class submarine, which will go through a Life-of-Type Extension, and there'll be billions invested in that. And they’ll be conducted in Adelaide, along with full-cycle docking, which will see the Collins class submarines, a very effective submarine, operate well into the 2040s.

Mitchell: I know you've made it clear that these these submarines will carry conventional weapons, not nuclear warheads. However, China and a number of other countries have pointed out, because so many of these vessels around the world are nuclear capable, that it would be not too difficult to convert them to nuclear weapons. Is that right?

Prime Minister: Well, no, I don't know if I’d necessarily share that view, but but it’s moot, because Australia is not seeking that capability. It's not on our agenda. It's not something that has ever been contemplated by us, and nor do I believe it should.

Mitchell: Will we have more US troops based in Australia?

Prime Minister: Well, we already have quite a number, as you know, up in northern Australia. And I was up there not that long ago when we were announcing major investments to increase the capability of our defence training facilities there to enable greater participation of our partner forces, the United States. What's exciting about this agreement is it isn't just the United States. It's the United Kingdom. I mean, the United Kingdom becoming a more significant partner with Australia on defence, one, but also, having their focus on this part of the world, which is increasingly- the Indo-Pacific has become the centre of the world. And in terms of where things are going to affect the fates of so many nations, including our own, but also those further afield in Europe and the United Kingdom, and Prime Minister Johnson, Boris, he understands this, and he is engaging very heavily with ourselves and the United States, but also many other countries in the region, and so are the French. And we would continue to welcome our participation with the French. We understand they're disappointed. That is entirely understandable and reasonable, and we'll just have to work through that. Butt, at the end of the day, as Prime Minister I've got to make the calls that are in Australia's national interests, and no one else.

Mitchell: How much have we already spent on the French deal?

Prime Minister: $2.4 billion, and that's been an investment in our capability.

Mitchell: So, that’s gone, that’s gone?

Prime Minister: Well, no, I don't, I don't see it that way, Neil. I see it as getting us into position to build our skills, understanding and capabilities. We've been investing in maritime engineers and systems engineers and building that capability. But, so I see that as a good investment. Our opponents were going to spend more than twice that much paying people to have vaccines they’d already had.

Mitchell: Ok, well, $2.4 billion, plus there'll be compensation. That's been estimated internationally at $400 million. What do you think - that's a ballpark figure?

Prime Minister: I'm not speculating.

Mitchell: Why? It’s being negotiated, is it?

Prime Minister: These are just commercial arrangements, and I'm not going to speculate on them.

Mitchell: Will it be public when it’s done, will it not?

Prime Minister: Of course.

Mitchell: In 2018, you said Australia did not have to choose between the US and China. Have we now chosen?

Prime Minister: I don't believe we should have to.

Mitchell: But, we have, haven’t we?

Prime Minister: My view, my view on that hasn't changed. I don't believe we should have to. I mean, everything we've done with the United States is consistent with the partnerships and relationships and alliance we've already had, always had with the United States. So, that comes as no surprise, and this is why our door remains open to have that comprehensive strategic partnership which we have with China, to continue on in the way we intended it to occur, and there is no obstacle to that from Australia's perspective.

Mitchell: Former Prime Minister Paul Keating, I know you disagreed with what he said, and you said that. A very strong statement yesterday, which in part I found offensive to anybody who served in Afghanistan. But, that's my issue. Did you feel he's offering propaganda comfort to China in that statement, as a former Prime Minister?

Prime Minister: Well, look, I always respect the views of former Prime Ministers. They have had, they had to deal with the situation that they faced in their time. This is a different time. And I need to deal with the world that our country is facing now. I made the observation that I suspect the view that he holds is shared by some, perhaps many in the Labor Party. I know it's not the official position that Labor has taken on this agreement, and I welcome that. But, that said, you know, his view would be at odds with that of, you know, Prime Minister Curtin all those years ago. As I said yesterday, I'm more with Curtin than Keating on this.

Mitchell: Would you rather he didn't make these statements?

Prime Minister: It's a free country. He's entitled to. He's a former Prime Minister. And I respect him as such. 

Mitchell: Did you feel his comments were insulting to people who served in Afghanistan? 

Prime Minister: I think we should always respect the service of our men and women, particularly former prime ministers and current prime ministers, and I always do. So I'll hold myself to that standard, I'll let others hold themselves to the standards they set. 

Mitchell: Does this does all this mean that nuclear power for peaceful purposes, that nuclear power is a step closer in Australia? If we can accept nuclear powers submarines, why not reactors that are giving us something to boil a kettle? 

Prime Minister: They're completely different issues and they're not related. And that was one of the key issues that enabled us to proceed, which was what was different to 2016. A) We didn't have access to this technology with the United States back in 2016. A conventional submarine was the only option. So we had to go for the best possible one we could get. And that was the Attack Class, the French submarine. And that is still our view. If you want a conventional submarine, that's the best one to do. But we need more than that. We need a supreme submarine capability in our part of the world, and that's what a nuclear submarine does. But on civil, no, the other thing is the reactor for these new generation nuclear submarines, for whole of service, for the vessel. And so that means you don't have to service the reactor and that means you don't need that civil capability. So the two issues are not linked. 

Mitchell: Just before we leave the region, Evergrande, which is a huge Chinese construction company, is on the verge of collapse, debts of $300 billion. What would that do to Australia's economy? 

Prime Minister: Well, like any major company investing in Australia, we obviously want them to be viable. That's good for jobs. But the truth is, the largest stock on foreign investment in Australia is actually from the United States, the United Kingdom, Canadian pension funds, European pension funds. China has had an important role in investment in Australia in many projects in particular in the construction sector. And that's been important to our economy. That's why we have an economic relationship with China. We're interested in that. But it's got to be on Australia's national interest terms, like with any other foreign country. We have rules and we have, I think, quite positive and proactive rules and principles. But that's it. You know, we set them and investment here happens on our terms. 

Mitchell: But there is speculation around the world, there is some analysis suggest the collapse of $300 billion in debt that could possibly provoke another GFC. 

Prime Minister: Well, that's not the advice I have at this point. But, you know, the world is going through a very, very difficult economic time. And I think it's an important reminder of that, Neil. I mean, the world is facing so many challenges. Of course, we've got COVID. And we've been dealing with that every single day now for almost two years. But let's not forget, there are global security challenges and that we have not taken our eye off the ball of that for one day. As yesterday I think demonstrated, there are the changes around counter-terrorism, which in a changing world post Afghanistan, we must continue to be ever mindful of. And then there's the economic challenges of the type that you've just announced, I should say, in making that observation. So the economic recovery plan that we put in in the budget, that is as important today, if not more than it was even then. So we're investing to ensure that Australia's economy is resilient, everything from training to infrastructure to manufacturing to science to research, university place, all of these things being done, and particularly in our energy sector, our energy sector, as the world moves into a new energy economy, we want to be competitive. We want to be successful. And we want to power our industries. 

Mitchell: Prime Minister, Victoria is introducing compulsory vaccination in the construction industry and it looks like coming in the health industry. And while it's not there already, will you re-think compulsory vaccination? 

Prime Minister: We've got no plans to do that. But states can always do exactly what you said. They're responsible for public health. I think, Neil, over the course of this 18 months, there's been some sort of mistaken view that some powers have been given to the states. It is just simply not true. They've always had them. And I think the public may not have been as aware of them because we haven't been confronted with a national and international pandemic at the scale we're now living through. It's enlivened what those powers are. The states have always had them and they they've always been responsible for them. And so each of the premiers must be accountable for how they use them. 

Mitchell: So a vaccine passport's inevitable, isn't it? 

Prime Minister: Oh that's- we've got a record of vaccination and that will enable people to travel overseas. That's what our job is. And that record of vaccination can be used by state governments as part of their QR code reading apps. 

Mitchell: Do you support that, intellectually, you know, no jab, no entry approaching in commerce? 

Prime Minister: Well, businesses have that right to say who can come into their premises. That's what the law says. And that doesn't that fall foul of discrimination laws. But what I actually think will happen Neil, is I think we'll move through these phases. I think there will be a phase, particularly as you go into 70 per cent, to 80 percent, where you've got to exercise that caution, as we're already seeing in New South Wales and as Victoria is moving towards, you'll start to open up. And it'll obviously be for public health reasons, not ideological reasons. The virus doesn't care what your ideology is and you will see vaccinated people being able to move and do more things. Why? Because they're less likely to get the virus, transmit the virus, get a serious illness and end up in hospital. And so that won't put the pressure on the public hospital system. Now, that is the key issue that has been focused on now. Particularly, we'll discuss that more later today, as we do every time we gather with all the premiers and chief ministers at National Cabinet. I know Victoria have done advanced planning on how they're going to deal with the surge on their hospital system and how they're going to manage that. It will come under pressure. Of course it will. As it is New South Wales. But they've got a plan to work through that and we'll support them as needed to help them through that. But every state at some point is going to have to pass through this tunnel to get to the other side to live with the virus. And in Victoria, New South Wales, you're a lot closer to it than the rest of the country. 

Mitchell: One thing that worries me with governments, and maybe this is a role federally as well, is when they're given powers like curfews and closing playgrounds and they've got these powers under the emergency powers. I understand that. They find them pretty hard to give up. We need some sort of guarantee that as we get through this, we'll return to being a free society, which is ... 

Prime Minister: Absolutely and I can assure you that our end as a federal government, we want these things only to be there as long as they have to and will be, you know, the first to be most enthusiastic to withdraw them. They are imposed and should be imposed only reluctantly. And in the same way, you know, we have had to engage the federal government in the biggest economic support programmes the country has ever seen. Now, JobKeeper and the COVID Disaster Payment supports, which we've had in place now in Victoria for some time, which has given billions in support, in Victoria specifically $1.7 billion of support on top of the business supports we're providing which Treasurer Frydenberg, Josh, has been able to put in place working closely with Tim Pallas. That's been very important. And has saved jobs, livelihoods. But, you know, our natural instinct, I got to tell you, is not to spend money in these ways, but when you have to, you do. And you stop doing it as soon as you're able to do safely. 

Mitchell: Thank you for so much time. Couple of quick things. Will AstraZeneca be recognised for overseas travel as a vaccine passport? Will AstraZeneca, for example, have the recognition in the United States? 

Prime Minister: Do you mean in Australia? 

Mitchell: Well, no, if I'm vaccinated with AstraZeneca in Australia and I want to get this passport to go overseas, will it be recognised around the world if it's AstraZeneca and not Pfizer? 

Prime Minister: Well as far as I'm aware, the United States isn't imposing any restrictions around that. 

Mitchell: What about other countries? 

Prime Minister: Well to those who do in Europe and particularly the United Kingdom, and it's obviously recognised there. It's the most recognised vaccine in the world. Here in Australia, we're recognising vaccines that have been approved by our TGA. 

Mitchell: Question from a listener, will we still be competing in the Winter Olympics in China? 

Prime Minister: Yeah, I see no reason why we wouldn't be. I mean, that's a decision of the Australian Olympic Committee, not the Australian Government. 

Mitchell: Can I ask you about Christian Porter. If as a radio broadcaster, I was to accept money from people I didn't know and it went into my back pocket, I'd lose my job. There's no question I would have the broadcasting authorities on to me, and rightly so, and I wouldn't do it. I know you are still assessing it. I know you're still waiting for a decision. But surely on the face of it, it looks like indefensible, does it not? 

Prime Minister: Well, I'm taking it extremely seriously and I'm waiting for some further advice on this, because this is something I've, you know, needs to be dealt with appropriately. And the Minister understands that as well. We've had that conversation. And until I get that further advice, then I just, I don't think it helps to speculate. I understand the point you're making, Neil. That's why I'm taking it so seriously. 

Mitchell: Couple of lighter things, if I may. Now, I want your view of what the US President was on about when he said this yesterday. 

[Excerpt plays]

Mitchell: I know it's not going to worry you, but did he forget your name, or was he just being relaxed? 

Prime Minister: I don't know. But he does refer to me as pal in our private conversations quite regularly. And if he did, we all have those moments, Neil. I've had them, I suspect you've had them and your listeners too. 

Mitchell: If he calls you pal, what do you, what do you call him? 

Prime Minister: I call him Mr President. Or mate. 

Mitchell: And one last question. You and Josh Frydenberg, Josh told me you were camped at the Lodge together for a while. 

Prime Minister: We were. 

Mitchell: Is it true you cooked him of your curries? 

Prime Minister: It is true. I cooked him one of my curries. More than once, and he enjoyed them very much. And as you'd expect. I quite enjoy getting in the kitchen. And it was good to have Josh there. We were working through a lot of issues at the time. And the fact that the ACT was in lockdown, meant, I mean there are virtually no more important relationship between the Prime Minister and the Treasurer in a government, particularly as the leader and deputy leader of the Liberal Party and of course, with the leader of The Nationals, with Barnaby. But we were working through a lot of issues and that enables us to, you know, keep working, basically and I beat him at pool too. 

Mitchell: And you watched Yes, Prime Minister? 

Prime Minister: Yeah, we did. Usually over dinner. We watched a few action films too. 

Mitchell: What? Westerns or?

Prime Minister: [Inaudible] and I don't get to watch them that often at home. 

Mitchell: Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. I know we've kept you. 

Prime Minister: Good to talk to you. 

Mitchell: Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43576

Interview with Allison Langdon, Today Show

17 September 2021

ALLISON LANGDON: Live from Canberra is that big fella from Down Under. Good morning, Prime Minister. How are you?

PRIME MINISTER: Good, pal. How are you?

LANGDON: Excellent. Hey, look, I'll tell you, he doesn't think you're a pal this morning, but the French, we know they're blowing up. With a deal so big, did you bother to pick up the phone and call President Emmanuel Macron?

PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, well, we've been speaking for some time, and I had dinner with him back in Paris back in late June, and we talked about these very issues and the serious situation that Australia was facing and the needs that we would have and the challenges that presented with that submarine programme. So I understand they're disappointed and that's very, very clear and we will work through those issues. They're important part of France, particularly here in the Pacific, where we have so many shared interests. And so we'll work through that. And that's necessary. We don't have any issue with what you know, obviously France and particularly Naval Group with the Attack Class submarine we were seeking to do. It was a good submarine. It was a conventional submarine and that no longer met our needs. So we had to do what was in our national interests. And I'm sure that President Macron would always act in France's national interests. And so too must Australia.

LANGDON: Well, as you say, the writing was on the wall with this. But don't you think, though, you could have just picked up the phone and given him a call, giving him a heads up before that announcement yesterday?

PRIME MINISTER: Well he was told, he was told.

LANGDON: So how was he told? And when did that happen?

PRIME MINISTER: That happened the night before.

LANGDON: The night before, OK.

PRIME MINISTER: He was fully aware of the decision.

LANGDON: All right. OK, so what we're hearing from the French media this morning that they found out on an Australian news site was not correct.

PRIME MINISTER: That's right. Both the President and the Foreign Minister and the Defence Minister were all briefed on that decision of Australia the night before it was made public here in Australia. And there had been an ongoing process for some months. And that began with the dinner I had with President Macron back in late June.

LANGDON: Maybe it just goes to how upset they are that this has happened. But as you say, look, it was it was a done deal, but it's north of a two billion dollar break-up. That's no small change, is it?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, this was all important investment for Australia, this has built our capability to now go forward. What we're doing, we've been skilling up people in submarine technology, in the maritime engineering skills that are necessary to engage on these very large programmes. But I mean, at the end of the day, we've got to keep Australia safe and we've got to take the decisions which do the best thing to keep Australians safe. And that requires a superior submarine capability for us to operate here in the Indo-Pacific region and to do that with our partners in the United States and the United Kingdom. And at the end of the day, what we were previously building was no longer going to meet that need. And so we weren't going to go ahead with it if that was no longer what we needed. And there was the opportunity to do that under the contract. Contracts have gates for that reason. I've been very clear about that. When I was in Paris, I said, there's a gate coming up and we have to decide whether we're going through it.

LANGDON: I mean, two billion, it's still a very expensive mistake. No surprises either. China not very happy.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, Ally, I don't see it like that. I don't see it like that, Ally.

LANGDON: How do you not see it as a mistake?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, the decision that was taken in 2016, that was the best submarine we could get access to. We've invested in building the capability to build submarines of that scale and now we can go further. So this has helped us get to where we are today and it'll help us with the project ahead.

LANGDON: OK, so China not happy this morning, as you know. Look at what they did when you called for an inquiry into the origins of COVID. Did we just put an even bigger target on our back?

PRIME MINISTER: We're just doing what we need to do to keep Australians safe and protect our national interest. I mean, China do the same thing. They have massive investments in their military capabilities, including in this area and Australia doesn't raise issues around that. All countries will take decisions in the national interest. We believe this will add to the peace and stability and security of the region. And that is, I think, a view that is widely shared about the impact of this arrangement. And we encourage all countries in the region to engage in that way.

LANGDON: Could our relationship with China be any worse right now, do you think?

PRIME MINISTER: We want a better relationship, but we also want to ensure that Australia always holds true to our interests and our values. And we're very happy to have a relationship that respects all of that.

LANGDON: OK, so Peter Dutton said on our show earlier that these submarines won't be ready for 20 years or so. What do we do in the meantime? Because we have poked the bear, China.

PRIME MINISTER: It will be earlier than that. But the other point I'd make is that the Collins Class submarines, they will be extended and they will go through what is called a life of type extension. That means that their capabilities are upgraded and they'll be operating well into the 2040s. And so those submarine capabilities will be preserved and enhanced and extended. In addition to that, that mean the agreement, AUKUS as it's called, a forever partnership, as I referred to it yesterday, that gives us access to the technology and the capabilities that Australia has never had access to before. I mean, there's only been one other time that the United States has shared their technology on nuclear powered submarines with anyone. And that was the United Kingdom in 1958. This is the only other time that has happened. And I think that underscores just how significant this new partnership is. I mean, this will keep Australians safe for generations.

LANGDON: And when will they be in the water are you predicting?

PRIME MINISTER: Before the end of next decade and in a similar time frame, not too different from when the Attack Class would be in, and that's why we're extending the Collins Class submarines to give them more capability, but supporting our broader defence capability, particularly in maritime and air space with the missile programmes I announced yesterday, the Tomahawks and those that launch from air platforms. So we're expanding. And the AUKUS agreement also goes into cyber and quantum capabilities, undersea capabilities and many others with technology that as yet hasn't even been invented.

LANGDON: I mean, there is so much that has been announced and revealed in the past 24 hours. How did you manage to keep all of this quiet?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, it was a very secure process, there's no doubt about that, we were dealing with the most sensitive of information that you could possibly imagine, and that has been going on for well over a year and a half when I first initiated this process. And I pay great credit to all of those who've worked on this and from Peter currently and Minister for Defence for many months now, and of course, Linda Reynolds before that. But Marise Payne as well has been sensational and working through this. Our Defence Secretary, the Chief of the Defence Force, the head of Navy, all of this, Chief of Navy. This has been a very closely held process. And, of course, you know, there have been quite a lot of other things going on with our management of COVID as well at the same time. And it just goes to show that as a federal government, you've got to deal with all the challenges you face. COVID is a very significant challenge, welcome the fact that 70 per cent first dose New South Wales, going to 50 per cent two doses. Tassie already there. Tassie still, you know, they're really doing well down there. They're doing a great job. And we want to see, obviously, in Queensland and Western Australia, those dose rates come up. But there's a lot of challenges that the federal government has to do. Some people say, "oh, you've only got two jobs, Prime Minister." Anyone who thinks I've only got two jobs doesn't understand anything about the job.

LANGDON: I'm just having a thought, I'm gathering you didn't tell Barnaby Joyce because I'm not sure he would have kept it a secret had Barnaby known. Not your inner circle?

PRIME MINISTER: Barnaby is the Deputy Chair of the National Security Committee of Cabinet. And we work that all through the National Security Committee.

LANGDON: So, he knew? Well done.

PRIME MINISTER: Of course, he did. And his predecessor, Michael McCormack, also did. And so they both look, this is this is probably the most significant decision that the National Security Committee of Cabinet has made, not just in our government, but in any government for a long time. This is as significant as going back to the original ANZUS agreement 70 years ago, which we've just marked. So it is a big step up, but you've got to deal with the times you're in. You've got to deal with the challenges that you face and as you perceive them into the future. And you've got to do what's right. And if that means you've got to take some hard decisions and I appreciate that that is a disappointing decision for France, who are our great friends. But you've always got to do, take the decisions that are in Australia's national interests, and that's what we've done.

LANGDON: So this is an incredibly big deal. It's an incredibly important move for us moving forward. I know you're heading off to the US on Monday to meet with the US President. Can you just just be honest with us with that moment yesterday? I mean, we're all holding our collective breath when he first started speaking. What was going through your mind when he called you that that fellow from Down Under?

PRIME MINISTER: I didn't pay much attention to it. I mean, these things happen. They happen frequently. I mean, from time to time. You know, I've been known to let the odd name slip from my memory. That's pretty normal in our line of work. I've got to be honest. And we've got a great working relationship. And the proof of that is in the pudding. I remember it was a few months ago, there was a few people give me a bit of a whack about the relationship when the three of us met together at Carbis Bay and I think it just goes to show there's lots of people who are prepared to have a whack, but they don't always know what's going on. And what was going on there was very significant. And the fact that they didn't know anything about it just shows that they probably don't know a lot about what's going on.

LANGDON: Just had to bide your time. And look, Prime Minister, we never forget your show here on the Today Show, OK? Your name.

KARL STEFANOVIC: You just did! Sucked in!

PRIME MINISTER: See Ally, it happens to us all, doesn't it? It happens to us all, pal. It does.

LANGDON: Oh my, Friday, I'm off, I'm out of here.

STEFANOVIC: You just got smoked by the PM.

LANGDON: Thank you, Prime Minister.

PRIME MINISTER: Thanks guys, all the best.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43575

Interview with Kim Landers, ABC AM

17 September 2021

KIM LANDERS: Prime Minister, welcome to AM.

PRIME MINISTER: G’day, Kim.

LANDERS: In Washington today, the Defence Minister Peter Dutton raised the prospect that American troops could be based in Australia as part of an enhanced forced posture. Is that right, US troops stationed here?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, they already are. And these arrangements have been in place for some time. And, of course, we, when we get together with our US defence partners in the AUSMIN program that is underway, and quite historically, that's the day after we announced the AUKUS arrangement, then we obviously continue to work on the ways we can work further together, not just in the land space, but in the maritime and the air space as well.

LANDERS: But, basing has specific significance in the defence community. An American base here in Australia?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, what I'm talking, what we're talking about is exercises that we do together, the way we work together in, as I said, in all of those domains, and that has always been a feature of how we've worked together, and we want to do that with more and more of our partners.

LANDERS: China says that the nuclear submarine deal gravely undermines regional peace and stability, and aggravates an arms race. What do you say?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course we don't share that view, and I don't think that's the view more broadly in the region. I think this is seen as a positive move that contributes to peace and stability. All countries will invest in their own defence capabilities, and, indeed, China does in theirs. As, and as we know, they've invested heavily in those capabilities, and and quite certainly most, most certainly in the same areas that Australia has been, now intends to. So, look, I think that is well understood, and all countries will do things that they believe in their best national interests. We are certainly doing that, and we're doing that with our most trusted partners for more than a century.

LANDERS: The state media tabloid in China, The Global Times, carried a direct threat in saying, and I quote, ‘Australian troops are most likely the first batch of western soldiers to waste their lives in the South China Sea’. Have you just provoked a military confrontation with China?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, no, I wouldn't describe our actions as that. But, I don't think that sort of language actually helps promote peace and stability.

LANDERS: What has been the response from some of our nearer neighbours? I'm thinking Indonesia, PNG, Fiji, for example?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, very, very positive. And they understand the context of what we're doing and they've understood the context of the relationship we've had with the United States and the United Kingdom. The presence of our two most trusted and long-term partners is very welcome in the Indo-Pacific and has been a mainstay of peace and stability, particularly the United States, for a very long time. And the welcoming of the UK into greater involvement here in our region is a positive thing. I’ve, I spoke to both the Fijian and the Papua New Guinean Prime Ministers yesterday, we’ve, and will be speaking to the Indonesian President, as we've already had the dialogue directly with foreign ministers and the and the defence ministers - which is how it works in the Indonesian system - and President Widodo and I will speak soon.

LANDERS: Australia has already spent more than ...

PRIME MINISTER: I also spoke, I should say, to Prime Minister Lee yesterday in Singapore, and that was also a very positive conversation.

LANDERS: Australia has already spent more than $2 billion on the French subs. How much more are we going to have to pay to to get out of the contract?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I see the investment that we've made in the program to date as a positive one. When you're investing in your capabilities, particularly an area like submarines, I mean, it's a very complex space, and we're building up skills, experience and knowledge, and all of that will be able to be put to work in what we're now doing under the nuclear submarine program ...

LANDERS: But, how much are we going to pay to have to actually break that contract now?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, there were gates in the contract that provided for us to take decisions such as this, and we have acted in good faith all the way along in our arrangements with Naval …

LANDERS: So, what’s the figure, though, I’m asking?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, these are matters that the Defence Department will work through in good faith in our arrangements directly. But, those are commercial in confidence matters. But, at this point, what I'd simply say is the investment we've had of $2.4 billion, that is an investment that has been building Australia's capability and will help us step forward into this next even more significant phase where we can have a supreme submarine capability in our region, which is what Australians need to both keep Australians safe, to support peace and stability, and to be able to work closely with our partners, particularly the United States and the United Kingdom, to complement what they're doing as well.

LANDERS: When it comes to the nuclear subs, can you give us a ballpark figure of how much they'll cost?

PRIME MINISTER: No, I can't. Not at this stage. We're going through an 18 …

LANDERS: You must have a rough idea?

PRIME MINISTER: No, we’re going through an 18-month period with our partners to finalise what the best way forward is. What I do know is that Australia's defence spending, as a share of GDP, will continue to increase, because it's not just about submarines. This is about a whole range of other capabilities …

LANDERS: So, what sort of percentage are you talking about?

PRIME MINISTER: The AUKUS arrangements that we're talking about goes to interoperability, cyber capabilities, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, undersea capabilities, beyond what we're talking with submarines. So, you know, as I said yesterday, as a share of our economy, this is, this is a, this is a commitment which will only continue into the future and increase into the future, based on what the needs and the capabilities we're seeking to acquire are. There's no target number. All I'm telling you is for us to be safe in this world going forward, we're going to have to do more, and we're going to have to do it forever.

LANDERS: If I could turn to another matter, why do you even need to ask your department for advice on whether Christian Porter has breached ministerial standards by accepting a big amount of cash from a mystery person to help pay a legal bill? Doesn't your own judgement say that that's just not okay?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I always act in these areas precisely, and I always act on the best possible advice. And I always want to ensure that the ministerial standards are fully understood in these contexts and the right decisions are made.

LANDERS: Well, you set up a similar process before ousting Bridget McKenzie. So, can we infer that Mr Porter will also leave Cabinet?

PRIME MINISTER: I don't think you can infer anything. I think you can just take, take it that I'm following a process which you'd expect the Prime Minister to do who believes strongly in ministerial standards.

LANDERS: Did you know about the money before Mr Porter updated his register of interests on Tuesday?

PRIME MINISTER: He only most recently, as I'm aware, became aware of becoming a beneficiary in that beneficiary payment becomes available to him …

LANDERS: So, you didn't know about it before he did?

PRIME MINISTER: These are not ordinary arrangements, and that's why we're seeking to have a full understanding of them.

LANDERS: When you spoke to him on Wednesday, did you ask him if he'd made any effort to find out who the money was from?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm not going to go into my conversations with the Minister, other than to say that our conversations are about ensuring and that we share a view that the ministerial ministerial standards should always be maintained.

LANDERS: How can the public possibly believe that there are no strings attached to this money, either now or sometime in the future?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, what I'm saying is, is that it's a very serious issue. I'm taking it very seriously, and I will ensure that the ministerial standards are maintained.

LANDERS: If, for example, Mr Porter gave back the money, would that mean that he could absolutely keep his ministerial job?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, Kim, I'm just not going to speculate on it. I'm just, I'm saying that we are taking the appropriate advice to make the right decisions to ensure ministerial standards are upheld.

LANDERS: Prime Minister, thank you very much for speaking to AM this morning.

PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Kim. Thanks for your time.

LANDERS: That is the Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43574

Interview with Leon Byner, FIVEAA

17 September 2021

Leon Byner: Scott Morrison, thanks for coming on this morning and welcome.

Prime Minister: Thanks Leon, good to be with you.

Byner: France are apparently a little aggrieved because they found out about the recent announcement we've been making about submarines and so on by the media. 

Prime Minister: That's not true. That's just completely untrue. 

Byner: Our newsroom just said that's what they're saying,  they're their official announcement. 

Prime Minister: That's not the case. This was relayed directly to the president, relayed directly to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Defence. 

Byner: So they know, what was their reaction?

Prime Minister: Of course, they were disappointed. That's understandable. This has been an important and significant project. And when I met with the President back in late June, I made it very clear we had a lengthy dinner there in Paris, about our very significant concerns about the capabilities of conventional submarines to deal with the new strategic environment we're faced with. And I made it very clear that this was a matter that Australia would need to make a decision on in our national interest.

Byner: These subs are going to use nuclear power, but are not considered a nuclear weapon. Is that the right characterisation, in your view?

Prime Minister: They're conventional weapons on a nuclear powered submarine. 

Byner: Yeah. Why do you think the US and the UK decided to share this top secret information with Australia?

Prime Minister: Because they trust us more than any other country in the world at the end of the day, and when it comes to their national security interests and their interests in global security, and particularly in the Indo-Pacific region, that Australia is a trusted and proven partner. We're the only other country together with the United Kingdom, which was back in 1958, where the United States had been prepared to share this technology. And this means that we will be able to boost our capability and that will add to theirs. And that's the key thing. This is about us adding to this partnership and our joint capability to boost peace and stability within the Indo-Pacific region. 

Byner: So, Prime Minister, is this new alliance going to be ratified whilst you're in Washington next week? 

Prime Minister: We will certainly be meeting over that. And I mean, it's a partnership agreement. It's not a treaty. So we're talking about a different type of arrangement. And those are done under a memorandum. And that's the normal process. 

Byner: How does South Australia fit into all this, because we've got Naval Group leaving as a result of this new deal. So what does this mean for the defence industry here in SA? 

Prime Minister: Jobs, jobs, jobs and jobs. That's what it means. I mean, saw the front page of the 'Tiser today, and that's that's clearly as that's been rightly, I think, interpreted. I mean, because it's not just this. I mean, the nuclear powered submarines, as I said yesterday to the world, that they would be built in Adelaide and obviously at Osborne, but there'll have to be a lot of changes there to gear us up to do that. And so we'll move from one project to the other, obviously, with a nuclear submarine, there'll be different components, obviously, that will need to be done in the places that involve the construction of those reactors. But putting that to one side, it means a lot of jobs, but it adds to the jobs of the Hunter-class frigates. It adds to the jobs of the Arafura Class offshore patrol vessels already under construction. Of course, full cycle docking, you and I have talked about that many times, Leon. And I said very clearly that we would make a decision on that one once I dealt with a broader strategic issue. And that is clear now what we were working on. And that is now resolved. And the reason it's staying in South Australia is pretty straightforward. Because South Australia's been doing a great job on it and that the work that South Australia has done on this process has given great confidence to Australia's submarine programme, and that has been recognised by our partners. So there is risk, in our view, too much risk attached to transferring that role anywhere else. So certainly there are other states, and particularly WA, who were interested in that. But if it ain't broke, you know, you don't fix it. And it ain't broke in South Australia. They're doing a fantastic job on this and we want them to keep doing that job. And that is in the best national interest of Australia. So it's not a commercial deal. I want to stress this. We're keeping it in South Australia because that is the most important place for it to be done. 

Byner: Now, we know that China think it's a bad idea. What about other countries? 

Prime Minister: Well received. I've been speaking to many leaders. Japan, India, Singapore, New Zealand, Fiji, Papua New Guinea. I'll be speaking to more again today, as our Defence and Foreign Affairs ministers have been speaking to their counterparts around the region. It's understood there's an agreement that brings the United States, the United Kingdom closer in our region, which only adds to the stability that is needed for the security and peaceful coexistence, happy coexistence within the Indo-Pacific region. 

Byner: Do you think it's true that some countries in our region have a better relationship with China than we do? 

Prime Minister: Of course they do, that's obvious.

Byner: Yeah. And are we going to improve our position with them, do you think? 

Prime Minister: With, with…

Byner: China, yeah

Prime Minister: Well, I would certainly hope so, and we're always interested in doing that. There is no obstacles to that on the Australian side 

Byner: And we aren't expecting these submarines to be delivered for decades. Is there an act of aggression against Australia in the region meantime, are we going to get the US to help us? 

Prime Minister: Well Leon, on the first point you make, I mean the timetable and these we anticipate being not too different to those on the Attack Class, ultimately with how that was progressing in tracking. The Collins Class life of type extension also being done in in South Australia at a cost of some $6.4 billion that starts in 2026, has a two year drumbeat and that will see Collins Class operating out into the 2040s. So that will continue. But the the agreement, AUKUS, Australia, UK, US, that agreement was put in place because I knew there would be a need for more than just submarines. This isn't just about submarines. That's the first initiative. But on the actual set of arrangements that we have agreed as part of this programme, we're extending out into a whole range of new capabilities in counter cyber operations, in AI and in quantum capabilities. In addition to that, I already announced yesterday the Tomahawk cruise missiles, the long range anti-ship missiles, the Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles, all of this and the other technologies we will get for our defence capability will further enhance between now and when the first nuclear submarine comes into service, which will be, you know, before you know, before the end of the next decade, they'll start building them this decade, I should say, and it's in all of our interests to complete it even sooner than that. 

Byner: Do you think this sort of implies that we're going to have a khaki election soon? 

Prime Minister: I don't know if it means that at all. I mean, that's that's not the point. This is about Australia's national security interests and that goes beyond politics. But, you know, it's not unreasonable, I suppose, for people as we go to the next election to be asking who they believe they can trust to be a steward of these important responsibilities. 

Byner: How important is our state, SA, in all this? 

Prime Minister: Central. It's absolutely central. The projects that we're talking about, whether it's the frigates. And we also announced the upgrade of the Hobart Class air warfare destroyer combat management system yesterday. Now, that's around $5.1 billion. That's about 300,000 South Australian jobs at its peak. I mean, South Australia is a workhorse here for Australia's naval defence capability.

Byner: So you think this will have a very profound effect on the employment opportunities in those higher skill areas? 

Prime Minister: Absolutely. And this is why I mean, Premier Marshall is, we've just worked hand in glove with this and he understands how important it is to build up South Australia's skilled workforce capabilities. And this is why he's always been so pro-immigration in getting the skilled workers that South Australia needs to grow these industries. I mean, the defence industry capability. But what's happening down at Lot Fourteen, that's one of the most exciting precincts in the country, not just exciting for South Australia. I'm excited about it at a national level and what's being done in the space, the Australian Space Agency based in South Australia. South Australia has a very critical strategic role in providing for Australia's secure future. 

Byner: Prime Minister, thank you for coming on today and continued good health. That's Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43573

Interview with Natalie Barr and Michael Usher, Sunrise

17 September 2021

NATALIE BARR: Good morning to you. Both sides of government …

PRIME MINISTER: Hey, Nat.

BARR: … not mincing their words in Washington this morning. How worried are you about the repercussions from China on this?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, we're just taking the necessary actions that we need to take to keep Australians safe, to have a peaceful and stable region in which we live. I mean, the world is changing significantly in our part of the world. Our deep friends and partners, the United States and the United Kingdom, understand that, as do many countries in our region. And so this is seen, I believe, across the region, in the conversations I've had with regional leaders, as a very positive, stabilising and peaceful initiative that is very much in Australia's interests and very necessary for Australia to undertake.

BARR: Well, look, we know we need it, but they've blocked and restricted our wine, our beef, our barley. Our exports are a huge amount to this country - $150 billion a year. You'd expect something, wouldn't you?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I expect Australia always to do what we need to do to to stand up for what we believe in, to take actions that protect Australians and Australia's interests, and to do that in partnership with our great friends and partners across the region and, of course, in the United States and the United Kingdom. And this is an historic partnership. This is a forever partnership. This is a partnership where we're accessing the technology and the support that only one other country in the world has ever been able to gain access to with the United States, and that was the United Kingdom and it was in 1958. So this, I think, demonstrates a level of cooperation and partnership designed for one simple thing - that is, to keep Australians safe and to do that with our best friends and our deepest partners.

MICHAEL USHER: Prime Minister, I wonder if you could share some more detail of the deal, because it's going to take a while for these submarines to be built, to come online. In the meantime, does it mean that perhaps America will station some of its nuclear submarines here to fill that gap in the region?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, already, AUSMIN - that's the meeting between the defence ministers and foreign ministers, you've heard from Peter a few minutes ago, Marise is there also - they're already at work on this, on these arrangements. They’re, they had their first meeting since the AUKUS arrangement was announced just overnight. And they're there working on these these very issues about future cooperation, whether it's air, land or sea. But, it's also about the other additional capabilities, the things that we'll get access to. I announced Tomahawk Missiles yesterday, also missiles that can be launched from air platforms. All of this is part of having a secure and strong defence force, and Australia playing its role here in the region with our partners to have a more stable and safer region. I mean, the world changes. Of course it does. We've had to deal with this over many, many years, and it's changing again. And we're responding to that, I think, in a positive way, and in a way that looks well ahead into the future.

USHER: Now that we are getting nuclear submarines coming online, it means we'll be able to submerge them, sail them into the region, have them undetected for quite some time, and in close to China. Do we just have to expect then - China already has nuclear submarines - that they'll be doing the same to us and bringing them into our waters undetected?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I mean, I mean, all around the world we're very aware as, of China's nuclear submarine capabilities. We're very aware of of the growing level of military investment that's been taking place around the world in that part of the world. We're interested in ensuring that international waters are always international waters, and international skies are always international skies, and that the rule of law applies equally in all of these places, and that there are no no-go zones where, you know, international law applies. And that's very important - whether it's for trade, whether it's for things like undersea cables, for for planes and where they can fly. I mean, that's that's the order that we need to preserve. That's what peace and stability provides for, and that's what we're seeking to achieve.

BARR: Paul Keating said if the US military, with all its might, couldn't beat a bunch of Taliban rebels with AK-47s in pick-up trucks, what chance would it have in a full blown war against China. What do you say to that?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't agree with it. And I know there are many in Labor who have those views. And I'm pleased that the official view that is coming forward is to support the agreement that was announced yesterday. But, I know there are many people in Labor have those views, but I don't share them. I respect all my, all the former Prime Ministers, but they had to, they had to govern for the times they were in, and deal with the issues that they faced at that time. And I'm certainly doing that as Prime Minister now for the times we face, and and we perceive into the future. And that's why this is, I think, is such an historic agreement, because it is the biggest step up we've seen in our relationship with the United States and the United Kingdom in 70 years. And this is exactly what Australia needs, and that's why we're so committed to it as the Liberals and Nationals.

USHER: You've been working on this deal for quite some time. More details of that released today, Prime Minister. Was there a moment where you thought this would not happen, or to you what was the biggest stumbling block to get it over the line?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, the, I think the biggest change in the technology we learnt, and and what would be required, was that we wouldn't have to have a civil nuclear power industry here in Australia. That has always been a key impediment into the past, and when that was no longer a requirement, and the reason for that is is how these nuclear submarines are built now. And I should stress there'll be no nuclear weapons on these submarines. We're committed to Non-Proliferation. I've been having those discussions, particularly with Pacific leaders, over the last 24 hours. I was speaking to the Papua New Guinean, the Fijian Prime Minister. The New Zealand Prime Minister was my first call about these arrangements. And we are very sensitive to those issues, especially in the Pacific, on Non-Proliferation. But, it was that ability to do this and and not have to have a civil nuclear industry here, which enabled us to go forward. The other thing that was very important in all of this is the changing environment in which we're in. And that meant the submarines that previously we were planning to build - conventional submarines, as good as those submarines were, and they were the right conventional submarine - but a conventional submarine was not going to do the job that the strategic circumstances now required. So, that decision was solely solely driven by what our interests were and what we had to do to serve them.

BARR: On that nuclear industry question, the AWU says we should now seize the opportunity for a domestic nuclear industry. Many nations around the world are doing it. Is this opening the door to that?

PRIME MINISTER: No, and those two issues are completely separate. And and that's why we've been able to pursue this purely in its own lane. They're they’re separate issues, and and there's a very clear policy on that. And our Government has always had the view that unless there's bipartisanship on those issues, then that's not something that the Government is pursuing. And the Labor Party's view on that is very clear.

USHER: Yeah. Prime Minister, we know your nickname's been ScoMo for quite a while. How are you happy being called ‘that fella from down under’ by the, by the President of the United States?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, it was an interesting moment in the media conference at a very-, but he always usually just when we speak privately, he refers to me as his pal.

USHER: Right.

PRIME MINISTER: So, there you go.

USHER: So, he’s forgotten your name for quite a while, has he?

PRIME MINISTER: No, but I'm looking forward to seeing him next week. We'll be catching up there in Washington. And that will be another important opportunity. Of course, we had that very important meeting in Carbis Bay, which I know some were critical of at the time. But, I think now people can see that that was probably one of the most important meetings that a Prime Minister has had with the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and and and the United States in a very long time.

BARR: Because you were starting to do the deal then?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, of course. I mean, we've been working on this for over 18 months. I mean, so it's been a very long process and it's been very careful process. And and we've greatly appreciated the way that both the United States and the United Kingdom have worked through us, through this with us. I mean, this is not something you can do overnight. This has taken many, a very long time. And, of course, it should. I mean, this is one of the most complex military build projects anywhere in the world. And you don't go into it lightly. And it involves a very significant commitment, not just today, but forever. That's why I refer to it as the forever partnership. It is, it is one that will see Australia kept secure and safe into the future. And it is, it is probably the most significant thing we've done in Australia's security interests, certainly in our Government's term.

USHER: Alright, pal, that fella from Down Under, thank you for your time today. We appreciate it.

PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, pals.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43572

Interview with Ben Fordham, 2GB

17 September 2021

Ben Fordham: PM, good morning to you.

Prime Minister: Good morning, Ben. Good morning right across Sydney.

Fordham: Big, big news yesterday. When we hear language like that, when you say the relatively benign security environment we've enjoyed over many decades is behind us, that has some people worrying. What are we bracing for?

Prime Minister: Well, this world is changing. It's as simple as that, Ben. The world we used to knew, know, over many decades has changed in our own region in particular, and there's a lot more, a lot more of the space is contested. There's a lot more competition. Our economy's changing. All of this is changing. And that just means Australia needs to work closely with our partners, with our friends, people in the region, to ensure we can keep things as stable and as peaceful as possible. And that's what yesterday's announcement was really all about.

Fordham: Yeah.

Prime Minister: About keeping Australia safe, keeping our region secure and stable, so we can continue to be the country we want to be.

Fordham: It was really about China, wasn't it? And I heard someone say yesterday, no one wanted to mention the panda in the room.

Prime Minister: Oh, look, I've seen all that commentary. All I know is that we're doing this to ensure that our region is stable, it is safe, that we keep Australians safe, as we always have. And as the times change, then you have to move with those times and you have to prepare your defence forces, the way you set all these things in place, the way you work with your partners and allies. Not just the United States and the United Kingdom. We work with countries all throughout the region, and it's in everybody's interests, including China's interests, for a stable, a stable and safe region.

Fordham: That's not the way that China sees it. They've gone on the attack, describing this pact as extremely irresponsible. But, I would have thought it was extremely responsible to protect your own people?

Prime Minister: Well, all countries take decisions in their national interests, and we have, and certainly China does. China has a very substantive program of nuclear submarine building, and their, have every right to take decisions in their national interests for their defence arrangements. And, of course, so does Australia and all other countries.

Fordham: Are you keen to start dialogue again with China?

Prime Minister: Of course. And we've never been, we've always been open to it. That has always been an open invitation. That remains to this day, and will continue.

Fordham: Well, what fresh attempts are you making to get that dialogue started again?

Prime Minister: It's an open invitation. Our embassy up in Beijing is always available and always offering those opportunities.

Fordham: The eight nuclear submarines will be vital, but we're being warned that they might be at least 15 years away. So, does this leave us exposed in the meantime?

Prime Minister: No, because we also announced yesterday what's called a Life-of-Type Extension. What does that mean? That means that we will be able to expend the life of our Collins class submarines, and we will doing that in South Australia as well. And that will mean they'll be operational well out into the 2040s. And, in addition to that, the agreement, which is called AUKUS - which means Australia, UK, United States - just like ANZUS - Australia, New Zealand, United States - AUKUS, what it does is it gives us access to a whole range of other defence capabilities. So, yesterday I announced Tomahawk Missiles. I also announced - which can be launched from our various platforms - and the other thing I announced yesterday was missiles that can be launched from the air, and all of these things on counter cyber arrangements, other sub- subsea defence systems, all of these things are things that we now have access to as part of this historic agreement. It's the biggest agreement we've had with our allies since ANZUS itself 70 years ago. And, just so people understand how significant that is, there's only one country in the world that the United States has shared its nuclear submarine technology with - that's the UK. It happened in 1958. So, it is a very significant development in the depths of our relationship with the United States and the United Kingdom.

Fordham: Ok. Just on the subs, they're powered by a reactor containing …

Prime Minister: Yep.

Fordham: … enriched uranium. So, we're going to import these reactors. But, we have a third of the world's uranium right here. Why can't we relax the ban on nuclear energy and build them right here in Australia?

Prime Minister: Well, there's no reason for Australia to need to do that because we can do exactly as you said. This doesn't require the development of Australia's civil nuclear capability, and and the other key thing that is involved here is these reactors on these vessels are able to be there for the, for the whole life of the vessel. And, they are the two big game changing things from a technology point of view that has happened since where we were back in 2016. Neither of that was available to Australia, and in particular the access to the technology from the United States.

Fordham: Well, why are we reluctant, though, to go down the nuclear path? The International Energy Agency says to guarantee energy security and reach our climate targets, nuclear power must play an integral role. So, if nuclear’s going to power our submarines, why can't it power our homes?

Prime Minister: Well, right now we believe we can achieve the goals that we have for emissions reduction through the issue, through fuel sources like hydrogen, in particular, and the many other, the many other things that are set out in our technology roadmap. That sort of technology is is being worked on in Australia for many years. I mean, ANSTO has been around for a very long time. My father-in-law worked at ANSTO from the 1960s. And, so, Australia has capability here. We don't come to this new, but in terms of going ahead with a civil nuclear capability, that is, that is not something that's linked to this decision.

Fordham: Prime Minister Scott Morrison joining us this morning. A few things to get through.

Prime Minister: Sure.

Fordham: Christian Porter, he's under fire for accepting money from anonymous donors to pay his legal bills. So, if he paid that money back, can he stay in his job?

Prime Minister: Well, I'm just taking some advice on those arrangements and the ministerial guidelines, and that's what's occurring at the moment. And I know Christian's looking carefully at those things as well. And, so, we'll allow that to take place.

Fordham: I don't know how you'd pay the money back if you don't know where it came from, though.

Prime Minister: Well, these are the issues that are being worked through.

Fordham: It's bizarre, isn't it, when you've got someone handing over a bucket load of money to a Minister of the Crown and we can't trace the money back. I mean, that's not going to stand, right? You're going to make a tough decision on it? Is he going to go, are you going to boot him from Cabinet?

Prime Minister: It's a serious issue, Ben, and that's why I'm taking it very seriously and acting carefully and taking the advice on what this means for the standards and guidelines. And I always act in accordance with those standards and guidelines.

Fordham: Is it right you want to make a decision on that before you take off to Washington?

Prime Minister: The timeframe I haven't set out.

Fordham: Just on a few other issues. During the pandemic, you've spared no expense to save lives. Are we going to have the same approach when all of this is over? Because, we have Aussies, as you know, who have to take out loans to pay for medication not listed on the PBS. Every week we all get an email from some poor family who's got a sick child trying to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for lifesaving treatment. So, are we going to keep that spare no expense mentality post-pandemic?

Prime Minister: Well, we've always been targeted, and even what we've done through the pandemic, Ben, and our heavy lifting on the pandemic, keeping people in jobs. I mean, the Labor Party's bagging JobKeeper, saying it wasn't worth it. I mean, I couldn't disagree more with them. It saved jobs, kept, saved businesses, actually kept Australia going ahead. And that has been probably the most successful economic program the country has ever run, and I think there are Australians all across the country who understand that personally because of what JobKeeper meant to them themselves, their own jobs, their own way to get through. And, even now, Ben, as we're working through the lockdowns that continue in New South Wales. I mean, we've already pumped just under $5 billion into New South Wales alone, in the same types of economic supports that were available under JobKeeper. These supports in New South Wales have been continuing for the 12 weeks now that people have been in lockdown. So, that's important. Going forward, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, Ben, that is something we've championed as a Government. We've listed more medicines than any government, and and that has been a mainstay of a commitment of mine. But, think about the last Budget - $17 billion to support aged care, $2.- just over $2.3 billion to support mental health care reforms. Massive changes in all of these areas. So, you know, while we've been dealing with COVID, that's very true, at the same time, we've been ensuring that our services are maintained right across the country, our health and education, but also that Australia's national security interests have also been protected and and progressed. And you've seen that in the significant announcement yesterday with AUKUS and the nuclear-powered submarines. I said stress, conventionally armed, they’re they're not nuclear weapons on those on those submarines. We don't seek that. We'll comply with all the comprehensive, all of the Non-Proliferation arrangements that are associated with these things.

Fordham: Just on hotel quarantine, I’m wondering how long we can keep on going with hotel quarantine. Yesterday, there were 1,351 new cases of COVID in New South Wales. Not one was in hotel quarantine. If hotel quarantine was considered an LGA, it wouldn't be one of concern. And now we've got, you know, the Australian Golf Open and PGA Championship. They've been rescheduled because vaccinated players don't want to sit in a hotel for two weeks. The Formula 1 set for November in Melbourne has been moved to next year. Tennis players don't want to quarantine before the Aussie Open. We're hearing the same thing about English cricketers and the Ashes now being in doubt. We've got a $60 billion tourism industry on hold. How long can we keep up with hotel quarantine?

Prime Minister: It's got a use by date on it. There's no doubt about it. I've been saying that for some time.

Fordham: What’s the date?

Prime Minister: Well, I believe the use by date is when we get home quarantine in place, and that's what the New South Wales Government is doing right now. It's what the South Australian Government is doing right now. In the national plan I set out back in early July, it actually requires this once you get to the high levels of vaccination. And the good news is, Ben, I mean, yesterday, right now we will have hit 70 per cent first dose around the country. New South Wales, one in two people will now be fully vaccinated, aged over 16. That will have already happened yesterday. Over 80 per cent New South Wales reached yesterday, four out of five people. Down in Tassie, they’ve just gone over one in two as well, when it comes to their vaccination rates, double dose. And importantly, in aged care facilities, we now have over 95 per cent of aged care workers who have had their first dose, which is what those mandates required, and those mandates have worked.

Fordham: Very impressive numbers. Just on the COVID vaccine, are you getting sick of all the conspiracy theories out there? Because we get emails and text messages every day. And even yesterday, the Government of Trinidad and Tobago had to release an official statement denying the vaccine can lead to swollen testicles. This is after the singer Nicki Minaj told two million social media followers her cousin's friend ended up developing the problem and it led to a cancelled wedding. There are some very, very nutty conspiracy theories out there, PM.

Prime Minister: Well, I'm concerned about it, I am. That's absolutely true, because it's dangerous. I mean, one of the things we're dealing with, particularly in a lot of disadvantaged communities in Australia, and in particular in Indigenous communities as well as some particular cultural communities, is that these conspiracy theories, this misinformation, and those who are out there peddling this misinformation - whether they're sending it into people's phones by text or they're putting it over the airwaves or they're parroting it from wherever they're doing it - they are putting people's lives at risk, and it's not right. And they should stop doing it.

Fordham: I know you've got to run. You're off to Washington. Now, Joe Biden yesterday, I can’t remember what he called you, ‘Old mate from down under’, or something.

Prime Minister: He called me pal.

Fordham: What did he call you?

Prime Minister: He called me, he called me his pal. That's actually how he usually refers to me on the phone, too.

Fordham: He knows your name, though, right?

Prime Minister: Of course, he does.

Fordham: Have a good trip. We’ll catch up when you’re back.

Prime Minister: Good on you, Ben.

Fordham: Good on you.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43571

NSW to Run Home Quarantine Pilot Program

17 September 2021

Prime Minister, Premier of NSW, NSW Minister for Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney

The NSW and Commonwealth governments will launch a home quarantine pilot in Greater Sydney next month, as NSW transitions towards opening up international borders.

The pilot, to be operated and monitored by NSW Health and NSW Police, will trial a seven day home quarantine program for around 175 people.

Participants in the pilot will have had both doses of a TGA-accredited COVID-19 vaccine.

The participants will be selected by NSW Health, based on a risk assessment framework, and may include some NSW residents, some non-Australian residents and some Qantas air crew.

The isolation period will be reduced from 14 to seven days.

The pilot program is being run in partnership with the Commonwealth Government and findings will inform future quarantine programs.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said the pilot would help secure Australia’s safe reopening plan.

“This is the next step in our plan to safely reopen, and to stay safely open,” the Prime Minister said.

“NSW has carried the lion’s share of quarantining returning Australians and will be leading the way with this trial that could set the standard for the next phases of the way we live with COVID-19.

“This could mean more families and friends being able to reunite more quickly, more business being able to be done here, and more workers for key industries being able to fill critical jobs.”

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the home quarantine program is critical to bringing more Australians home while keeping the community safe.

“NSW has quarantined over 245,000 travellers throughout this pandemic, by far the most of any jurisdiction in the country and this pilot will lay the foundations for us to reunite even more families and friends who are fully vaccinated,” Ms Berejiklian said.

“Hotel quarantine has been an important line of defence throughout this pandemic but as we move towards our vaccination targets, we have to look at new ways of doing things.”

“The safety of the community remains our number one priority and the rules around this home quarantine pilot will be strictly enforced.”

NSW will utilise a mobile phone app based on that already in use in South Australia. The app uses geolocation and face recognition technology to monitor isolation compliance. The app will also provide people with a testing schedule and symptom checker.

Privacy will be protected through the same mechanisms as the current Service NSW check-in regulations.

Random in-person police checks will also be conducted, and the existing penalties for individuals who breach conditions of their isolation still apply.

The Commonwealth Chief Medical Officer has discussed the pilot’s arrangements with the NSW Chief Health Officer and supports the shortened quarantine period proposed for this pilot and for the proposed cohort of fully vaccinated travellers, vaccinated with a TGA approved vaccine.

Minister for Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney Stuart Ayres said improving vaccination rates mean a home quarantine trial is now a viable option.

“As more people around the world and here in NSW get vaccinated, we can start to consider things that make lives easier, like home quarantine,” Mr Ayres said.

“NSW looks forward to reopening and to accepting a greater number of international arrivals.

“Now is the ideal time to pilot a home quarantine solution as we transition towards opening up.”

The pilot will run from later this month and operate for four weeks.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43570

National Cabinet Statement

17 September 2021

National Cabinet met today to discuss Australia’s COVID-19 response, recent outbreaks of COVID-19 and the Australian COVID-19 Vaccine Strategy.

National Cabinet continues to work together to address issues and find solutions for the health and economic consequences of COVID-19.

Since the beginning of the pandemic there have been 82,202 confirmed cases in Australia and, sadly, 1,138 people have died. More than 35.2 million tests have been undertaken. Testing has increased nationally over recent days with 1,574,446 tests reported in the past 7 days.

Globally there have been over 226.9 million cases and sadly over 4.6 million deaths, with 674,536 new cases and 11,033 deaths reported in the last 24 hours. The COVID-19 pandemic continues to surge in many countries around the world.

Australia’s COVID-19 vaccine roll out continues to expand. To date over 24 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been administered in Australia, including 302,141 in the previous 24 hours.

In the previous 7 days, more than 1.9 million vaccines have been administered in Australia. More than 70.4 per cent of the Australian population aged 16 years and over have now had a first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, including over 85.3 per cent of over 50 year olds and more than 91.9 per cent of over 70 year olds.

More than 45.3 per cent of Australians aged 16 years and over are now fully vaccinated including more than 64.5 per cent of over 50 year olds and more than 73.2 per cent of Australians over 70 years of age.

Today, Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly provided an update on current outbreaks of COVID-19. The Chief Medical Officer noted the outbreaks in New South Wales, Victoria and the Australian Capital Territory.

All leaders reiterated the importance of Australians, especially those in vulnerable groups, to get two doses of a COVID-19 vaccination.

Professor Brendan Murphy, Secretary of the Commonwealth Department of Health, provided an update on the work being done by the Commonwealth and all states and territories looking at health system capacity for managing COVID-19 cases during Phases B and C of the National Plan, and the Chief Medical Officer provided an update on the Test, Trace, Isolate and Quarantine (TTIQ) work underway through AHPPC. Leaders discussed in detail the health system capacity within jurisdictions, with further analysis to come back to the next meeting of National Cabinet. NSW and Victoria provided an update on the detailed planning already underway in their jurisdictions.

National Cabinet received a briefing from Lieutenant General John Frewen, DSC, AM, Coordinator General of the National COVID Vaccine Taskforce (Operation COVID Shield). National Cabinet welcomed the roll out through pharmacies of the Moderna vaccine from next week. Further work is underway to support booster shot roll out, subject to approvals.

State and territory leaders received an update on work underway in some jurisdictions to progress home quarantine trials for fully vaccinated Australians. All jurisdictions agreed to integrate an individuals’ record of COVID-19 immunisation history into state and territory check-in apps. The record of COVID-19 immunisation history will be used within these check-in apps as per requirements under state and territory public health orders.

All leaders agreed that National Cabinet has strengthened relationships between governments by facilitating regular discussions in the national interest, founded on the same principles of trust, confidence and collaboration which underpin State, Territory and Commonwealth Cabinets. Today National Cabinet members have provided a joint statement reaffirming this, which is attached.

National Cabinet agreed to meet next on Friday, 1 October 2021.

COVID-19 Risk Analysis and Response – Taskforce

National Cabinet received an update from Professor Jodie McVernon of the Doherty Institute and Mr Phil Gaetjens, Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, on the Doherty modelling of additional scenario and workstreams, and the Taskforce report on reopening.

Doherty’s sensitivity analysis found that the Delta variant can be managed at vaccination rates of 70% and 80% when combined with appropriate test, trace, isolate and quarantine (TTIQ) practices and public health and social measures (PHSMs) to control transmission and to manage capacity of the health system.

Doherty’s sensitivity analysis showed that, even if an outbreak starts with hundreds or thousands of cases, its original conclusions for transitioning to Phases B and C of the National Plan at 70% and 80% vaccination rates respectively remain robust.

The sensitivity analysis confirms that, when daily case numbers are in the tens or hundreds, movement to Phase B can be achieved with vaccination rates of 70% when combined with low-level PHSMs and partial TTIQ or alternatively baseline PHSMs and optimal TTIQ.

When daily case numbers are in the thousands, applying medium PHSMs in the locations of concern would be prudent and improve outcomes as Australia moves to Phase B at 70% vaccination rates, before shifting to low PHSMs from 80%. Given the pace of the vaccination roll out, the transition from 70% to 80% by jurisdiction is modelled to take around two weeks.

Doherty is now undertaking further work that focuses on synergies between vaccination, TTIQ and PHSMs at a small area level and for high-risk groups and settings, including Indigenous Australians and schools.

Professor McVernon noted the impact of COVID-19 on children is already incorporated in the Doherty’s previous modelling and the setting of targets. The best way to protect children is for the adult population, including their parents, to get vaccinated, as they are more likely to transmit COVID-19, and children experience less severe health outcomes from COVID-19.

The Doherty modelling confirms that with high vaccination and appropriate TTIQ and PHSMs to constrain outbreaks, overall cases and deaths are expected to be similar in order of magnitude to annual influenza.

The updated Doherty scenario and Taskforce summary is available on www.pmc.gov.au.

National Code on Boarding School Students

With school holidays starting in some states today, National Cabinet endorsed the National Code on Boarding School Students, previously considered by the AHPPC. The Code provides nationally consistent arrangements that help boarding school students, parents, carers and boarding school staff travel across borders between school and home, while also allowing states to take a risk-based approach to health and safety.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-06/national-cabinet-statement-the-importance-of-confidentiality-to-relationships.pdf

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-44111

Interview with Jane Marwick, 6PR

16 September 2021

Tom Elliott: Scott Morrison, the Prime Minister, joins us right now. Prime Minister, good morning.

Prime Minister: Good morning, Tom.

Elliott: Well, I know that the election is unofficially on, because we're all out campaigning. Or at least you are. When are you going to call it?

Prime Minister: Oh, it won't be very long from now. You know, it's coming up to three years in the middle of May. Since the last election. And I've always said that, you know, that’s the time for the election. Others have speculated, I've always been pretty clear in my mind and upfront with the Australian people about it. So that's coming up soon. That's when it was expected to be done, that's when it will be held. And the election gives people the opportunity to take a good look at the choice, and this election is a choice, not a referendum. It's a choice between the Liberal Party and the Nationals and Labor supported by the Greens. Our future plans and our track record of the economy and national security, and plans we don't know anything about from Labor and the Greens. They're an unknown. It's a choice between what you know and what you don't know.

Elliott: The polls say that you're not doing too well. Do you reckon you'll win?

Prime Minister: Yeah, look, I'm confident in the Australian people that as we get to this election, as people focus on the choice that's before them, that they will make a choice that will ensure that Australia continues to be strong in very uncertain times. There are incredible pressures on our economy. There are incredible pressures on our national security. And now is not the time to be changing course. Australians have worked incredibly hard, over what has been an extraordinarily tough three years and we need to keep going in the way that we have, which has made Australia one of the strongest economies coming out of this pandemic in the advanced world.

Elliott: In about half an hour, I'm going to speak to the CEO of the National Australia Bank, Ross McEwan, and there's a story in the The Age this morning saying that the big banks are going to lift interest rates four or five times in the next six months. Do you think that's going to exacerbate cost of living pressures on Australian families?

Prime Minister: Well, there are lots of pressures on the Australian economy and there are those pressures. There's no doubt about that. That's going all around the world. I mean, inflation is running double in the United States what it is here in Australia and significantly higher in the United Kingdom and in many other developed economies around the world. And that's why strong financial management in the years ahead is going to mean more than anything, and we've had a steady hand on those issues. WeJane Marwick: Scott Morrison, good afternoon and welcome, PM Good afternoon. 

Prime Minister: Good afternoon. It's great to be with you. G'day Western Australia. 

Marwick: Prime Minister, this big announcement from you today, Australia will acquire at least eight nuclear powered submarines in a once in a generation decision that will deliver the nation unprecedented strike capability and a significant boost to defence spending. Now, there has been criticism from our Premier Mark McGowan. I'll play you a bit of that in a moment. But these new nuclear subs will be delivered under this historic defence technology partnership between Australia, the US and the United Kingdom called AUKUS, to meet rising Chinese strategic threats. Now, I know that you did pick up the phone today to Premier McGowan. Let's have a listen to what the Premier said in parliament. 

[excerpt plays]

Marwick: Prime Minister, have you let the great state of Western Australia down? 

Prime Minister: No, of course not. I mean, that can't be sustained. The facts just don't bear it up. Let me run through what we're building in Western Australia. The Arafura class offshore patrol vessels, that's worth $3.9 billion. The Guardian class patrol boats that's, $510 million. The Evolved Cape class boats, they're $343 million. There's the ANZAC Class sustainment. That's $338 million per annum. There's the undersea surveillance support ships. That's between $6-9 billion. There's the future mine warfare and hydrographic vessels. That's between $4.3-6.4 billion. There's the joint support ships, it's a long list, I'm sorry, you'll have to be patient as I run through it. That's $5.1-7.7 billion. There's the replacement LHD landing craft. That's $400-600 million. There's the Ocean Protector replacement. That's $400-650 million. There's a Future Army water and landing craft, there's $1.9-2.8 billion and the forward support vessel between $500-750 million. 

Now, on top of that, there's the Collins class intermediate mid cycle docking arrangement. That's 500 jobs and that goes through until the mid-2040s. And very importantly, a project which the Premier knows full well that we're very supportive of working together with him on. And that is the large vessel dry berth infrastructure, which means that Henderson becomes such an important part of our naval shipbuilding capability. Now, look, this isn't something that we should be playing politics with. Anthony Albanese can make his own points in Western Australia. He doesn't need the Premier to help him do that. I just want to work with the Premier to do good things for Western Australia. We've done that on many occasions. The Premier and I have worked on many great projects for Western Australia and we'll continue to do that. And I look forward to doing that. I rang him this morning out of sheer courtesy because he and I had been discussing the full cycle docking issue for some period of time. I told him on my last visit to WA, that that decision couldn't be made until a higher level strategic decision had been made. We've obviously made that now in relation to the nuclear powered submarines, and that led to us now making the decision on full cycle docking. But of the many other projects that we're going, Western Australia is a massive part of our naval shipbuilding programme. And the Premier knows that. 

Marwick: Prime Minister, are you disappointed that he said that the Liberals and Nationals have turned their backs on Western Australians? 

Prime Minister: Well, it's just politics, that's all it is. There's an election coming up next year. You'll probably hear a lot more of that. But I think what Western Australians want us both to do is just get on with projects that are important for Western Australia. And that's exactly what I've always sought to do. And on so many occasions, I believe the Premier has also. We've done a lot of important work together. And at the end of the day, it was the federal government, my government that delivered the GST deal for Western Australia and has guaranteed that deal. And that's something that the Western Australian Premier would know very well because it's a massive part of his surplus this year. 

Marwick: Prime Minister, this is clearly a lot to do with China. This is clearly very, very strategic. At what point in government did you realise how present and real the threat from China is? 

Prime Minister: Well, that's not what I've said today, and that's certainly not how I’ve couched the announcements today. And nor has President Biden or Prime Minister Johnson. What we've done is announced a partnership between the three of us to ensure that we can contribute to peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific. And Western Australians understand that, probably even more so than right around the country. You're on the Indian Ocean. The Indo-Pacific is very real in Western Australia and particularly our friends and partners up through the ASEAN countries and South East Asia and Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia. These are places that Western Australians know very, very well and have a deep affinity for. And so what we're doing together is providing stability and stability brings the peace, which enables the whole region to just get on with what we all want to achieve. And that is what is the best for our people. 

Marwick: What do we know about these nuclear subs that we're going to order? 

Prime Minister: Well, it's be using technology which is drawn from both the United Kingdom and the United States, and that will be worked up over the next 18 months. What I think is really important about this, is the United States has only ever once enabled access to the technology for nuclear powered submarines, and that was to the United Kingdom in 1958. Plenty have sought this support in the past and the answer has always been no. And indeed, Australia has been keen on having this capability for some time. This is the first time ever that we've been afforded the opportunity to access this technology, and that is a significant leap forward for Australia. 

It is enormously significant for our future defence capabilities, but it's not just about the nuclear powered submarines. I should stress they're nuclear powered, they’re conventional weapons that would be on board the nuclear powered submarines. It does not require us to have a civil nuclear capability here in Australia. That is another key game changing issue that has occurred since 2016, when we previously made the decision about the conventional submarines, the Attack Class from the French based Naval Group. So a lot has changed over that period of the last five years. And so this technology that we'll be able to access will be worked up as to the best pathway forward of the available technologies and designs that are available from the United States and the United Kingdom. 

Marwick: Earlier this week, Anthony Albanese said that he would make climate change a hallmark of the US-Australia alliance if he wins the next election. Does an announcement, an announcement like this blow that out of the water? 

Prime Minister: Well, look, of course, climate change is important. I believe climate change is important, my government does. It's important that we transform our energy economy as the world transforms its energy economy over the next 30 years. We understand that. The Americans understand that, too, and are taking a strong position, as are the United Kingdom. But when it comes to the alliance relationship we have with the United States, it is grounded in one thing first and foremost, and that is our national security. And that has always driven that partnership from when Robert Menzies first secured the ANZUS Agreement 70 years ago, and indeed before that time, when it was Prime Minister Curtin from Western Australia, who really was the first to engage in that pivot towards the United States. So I think I'm in good company with Curtin and Menzies and in so many fine prime ministers since, in particular John Howard. 

Marwick: Well, speaking of fine prime ministers of the past, this French sub deal that we've now just put on the scrap heap under Prime Minister Turnbull and ably assisted by Christopher Pyne has cost us, what, $2.4 billion and many years, how much has that cost us? 

Prime Minister: $2.4 billion. That's why we said today, that was an important investment that has enabled us to be where we are today. And that investment has been building up our people, their skills, their abilities, and much has been gained from that. And we wouldn't be able to be where we are today had we not done so. 

Marwick: So that money was well spent, the $2.4 billion?

Prime Minister: In 2016, the option of having a nuclear powered submarine was not available. It wasn't on the table. We couldn't access that technology. We had to go forward with the best possible conventional submarine that was available to Australia, and that was the Attack Class submarine from France. And a lot has changed since 2016. And I'm sure you would agree, I'm sure your listeners would agree that if we have the opportunity now, you have gates in contracts for a reason and we were approaching a very important, effectively final gate on that contract, from which there was no point of return. And to have that opportunity to go down the nuclear submarine pathway, it was incredibly important. And the decision had to be made to ensure that we did that and to do that then obviously, we couldn't proceed with the Attack Class submarine programme.

Marwick: Prime Minister, we're out of time. Thank you for joining us this afternoon on 882 6PR. Let's hope, let's hope that you and the Premier can be friends again. 

Prime Minister: Oh, we already are friends, we're always good friends and we get on just fine. And politics will go round and round and round. But the Premier and I will keep getting things done for Western Australia. 

Marwick: All right. Good to talk to you. Thank you. There he is, the Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43569

Key Naval Projects Confirmed for South Australia

16 September 2021

Prime Minister, Minister for Defence, Minister for Finance

South Australia will spearhead a major expansion of Australia’s naval capabilities, supporting thousands of jobs and advancing the state’s shipbuilding expertise.

A number of naval projects have been confirmed for South Australia, following the announcement today of a new enhanced security partnership between Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The first initiative under the partnership, known as AUKUS, is to acquire nuclear-powered submarines for Australia, which are intended to be built in South Australia.

The Morrison Government has also approved a Life-of-Type Extension to the Collins class submarine fleet from 2026 in South Australia, and confirmed that the Full-Cycle Docking of the Collins class will continue to be conducted at Osborne. Up to $6.4 billion will be invested in these works, and around 1,300 jobs supported in South Australia.

The Government will also invest up to $5.1 billion in upgrades to the Hobart Class destroyer combat management system upgrades at Osborne from 2024, creating 300 jobs in the state.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said the investments reinforced the Government’s commitment to South Australia’s shipbuilding industry.

“This expansion of Australia’s naval capabilities will strengthen national security, boost our sovereign workforce and support thousands of jobs in the South Australian industry,” the Prime Minister said.

“South Australia is home to some of the most skilled shipbuilding workers in the world, they have the know-how, ingenuity, industrial knowledge and determination that is required to provide our Defence Force with the very best capability.”

Minister for Defence Peter Dutton said the Government’s investments would ensure Australia maintained a strong and agile submarine capability for decades.

“The Collins class submarine to this day remains one of the most capable conventional submarines in the world,” Minister Dutton said.

“The planned Life-of-Type Extension, through the replacement of key systems, will help deliver Defence’s strategic objectives.

“The upgrade to the Aegis combat management system will ensure our fleet of Hobart class air warfare destroyers maintain their capability-edge into the future.

“Both of these projects announced today are vital for Defence’s ability to act with greater independence in an increasingly contested strategic environment.”

Minister for Finance and Senator for South Australia Simon Birmingham said the state would continue to benefit from the Morrison Government’s sovereign and continuous naval shipbuilding program.

“South Australia is the engine room of naval shipbuilding in this country,” Minister Birmingham said.

“Full-Cycle Docking and Life-of-Type Extension at Osborne will ensure we retain our skilled shipbuilding workforce, and will continue to create opportunities for local businesses to engage with the defence industry.

“In addition, the up to $5.1 billion investment in upgrading the Hobart class combat management system will create extra economic activity as well as around 300 jobs in the state.

“Conducting these sustainment projects in Osborne, on top of the building of frigates and submarines will ensure South of Australia continues to be the epicentre of naval shipbuilding in this country.”

Collins class submarine HMAS Farncomb will be the first to undergo a Life-of-Type Extension when it enters its next Full-Cycle Docking in 2026.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43567

Australia to Pursue Nuclear-Powered Submarines Through New Trilateral Enhanced Security Partnership

16 September 2021

Prime Minister, Minister for Defence, Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister for Women

Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States have agreed to the creation of an enhanced trilateral security partnership – AUKUS.

The security challenges in the Indo-Pacific region have grown significantly. Military modernisation is occurring at an unprecedented rate and capabilities are rapidly advancing and their reach expanding. The technological edge enjoyed by Australia and our partners is narrowing.

AUKUS will build on the three nations’ longstanding and ongoing bilateral ties, and will enable the partners to significantly deepen cooperation on a range of emerging security and defence capabilities, which will enhance joint capability and interoperability.  Initial efforts under AUKUS will focus on cyber capabilities, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, and additional undersea capabilities.

This is an historic opportunity for the three nations, with like-minded allies and partners, to protect shared values and promote security and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region.

AUKUS will complement Australia’s network of strategic partnerships, including with our ASEAN friends, our Pacific family, our Five Eyes partners, the Quad and other like-minded partners.

First initiative under AUKUS

The first initiative under AUKUS is for Australia to acquire nuclear-powered submarine technology, leveraging decades of experience from the US and UK.

Under AUKUS, the three nations will focus immediately on identifying the optimal pathway to deliver at least eight nuclear-powered submarines for Australia.

Over the next 18 months, Australia, the UK and US will intensely examine the full suite of requirements that underpin nuclear stewardship and demonstrate a clear pathway to becoming a responsible and reliable steward of this sensitive technology. Australia will establish a Nuclear-Powered Submarine Taskforce in the Department of Defence to lead this work.

Nuclear-powered submarines do not have the same limitations that face conventional submarines on weapons storage, speed and endurance. They can stay completely submerged for many months, limiting the opportunities for detection by adversaries.

As a three-ocean nation, it is necessary for Australia to have access to the most capable submarine technology available. As a nation, we are ready to take the step to pursue the most advanced submarine technology available to defend Australia and its national interests. 

Australia has no plans to acquire nuclear weapons and this proposal will remain consistent with Australia’s longstanding commitment to nuclear non-proliferation.  All three nations are deeply committed to upholding leadership on global non-proliferation.

The Government’s intention is to build the nuclear-powered submarines in South Australia, maximising the use of Australian workers.

Building the submarines in Australia is the best way to develop a strong and effective sustainment industry, which will enable us to meet every requirement to safely operate and maintain nuclear-powered submarines.

Attack class submarine program

The pursuit of nuclear-powered submarine technology means that Australia will no longer proceed with the Attack class conventional submarine program with Naval Group.

The Government would like to thank the Attack class submarine workforce, Naval Group, the Government of France and Lockheed Martin Australia for their efforts to date. However, accelerating changes to regional security make conventional submarines unsuited to our operational needs in the decades ahead.

The Government will actively work with industry to ensure the people and skills developed under the existing program are not lost to the Government’s Naval Shipbuilding Enterprise as we establish a new program to support the delivery of nuclear-powered submarines to the Navy.

The existing submarine workforce are prime candidates for the unprecedented work that needs to be performed across the Enterprise over the coming decades, where we will rely on their expertise more than ever.

The Government will partner with our Australian-owned sovereign shipbuilder, ASC, to manage and implement a new Sovereign Shipbuilding Talent Pool.

The Government is committed to finding a role within the Sovereign Shipbuilding Talent Pool for each and every skilled shipbuilding worker impacted by this announcement.

The Sovereign Shipbuilding Talent Pool will re-deploy the existing shipbuilding workforce throughout current and new shipbuilding programs, while building the nuclear-powered submarine skills that will be crucial for the success of the nuclear-powered submarine program.

This decision was not taken lightly. Our partnership with the Government of France and Naval Group on the Attack class conventional submarine program would have resulted in the most capable and lethal conventional submarine ever built.

As likeminded liberal democracies, Australia and France share a common commitment to the rules-based global order that has delivered stability and prosperity to the Indo-Pacific.

We look forward to continuing to work closely and positively with our French counterparts. France is a key friend and partner to Australia and the Indo-Pacific.

Other capabilities

The Government will also acquire additional long-range strike capabilities for the Australian Defence Force.

Throughout the decade, Australia will rapidly acquire long-range strike capabilities to enhance the ADF’s ability to deliver strike effects across our air, land and maritime domains.

These include:

• Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, to be fielded on our Hobart class destroyers, enabling our maritime assets to strike land targets at greater distances, with better precision.

• Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles (Extended Range) will enable our F-A-18F Super Hornets and in future, our F-35A Lightning II, to hit targets at a range of 900km.

• Long-Range Anti-Ship Missiles (Extended Range) (LRASM) for the F/A-18F Super Hornet.

• Continuing collaboration with the United States to develop hypersonic missiles for our air capabilities.

• Precision strike guided missiles for our land forces, which are capable of destroying, neutralising and supressing diverse targets from over 400km.

• Accelerating $1 billion for a sovereign guided weapons manufacturing enterprise – which will enable us to create our own weapons on Australian soil.

These capabilities, coupled with the planned Life-of-Type Extension of Australia’s Collins class submarine fleet, will enhance Australia’s ability to deter and respond to potential security challenges.

The management of this transition, and other capability acquisition options that will meet Australia’s strategic requirements, will be at the forefront of consultations through AUKUS over the next 18 months.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-44110

Joint Leaders Statement on AUKUS

16 September 2021

The Hon. Scott Morrison MP
Prime Minister of Australia

The Rt. Hon. Boris Johnson MP
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
President of the United States of America

As leaders of Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States, guided by our enduring ideals and shared commitment to the international rules-based order, we resolve to deepen diplomatic, security, and defense cooperation in the Indo-Pacific region, including by working with partners, to meet the challenges of the twenty-first century. As part of this effort, we are announcing the creation of an enhanced trilateral security partnership called “AUKUS” -- Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

Through AUKUS, our governments will strengthen the ability of each to support our security and defense interests, building on our longstanding and ongoing bilateral ties. We will promote deeper information and technology sharing.  We will foster deeper integration of security and defense-related science, technology, industrial bases, and supply chains. And in particular, we will significantly deepen cooperation on a range of security and defense capabilities.

As the first initiative under AUKUS, recognizing our common tradition as maritime democracies, we commit to a shared ambition to support Australia in acquiring nuclear-powered submarines for the Royal Australian Navy.  Today, we embark on a trilateral effort of 18 months to seek an optimal pathway to deliver this capability.  We will leverage expertise from the United States and the United Kingdom, building on the two countries’ submarine programs to bring an Australian capability into service at the earliest achievable date.

The development of Australia’s nuclear-powered submarines would be a joint endeavour between the three nations, with a focus on interoperability, commonality, and mutual benefit. Australia is committed to adhering to the highest standards for safeguards, transparency, verification, and accountancy measures to ensure the non-proliferation, safety, and security of nuclear material and technology. Australia remains committed to fulfilling all of its obligations as a non-nuclear weapons state, including with the International Atomic Energy Agency.  Our three nations are deeply committed to upholding our leadership on global non-proliferation.

Recognizing our deep defense ties, built over decades, today we also embark on further trilateral collaboration under AUKUS to enhance our joint capabilities and interoperability.  These initial efforts will focus on cyber capabilities, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, and additional undersea capabilities.

The endeavour we launch today will help sustain peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific region.  For more than 70 years, Australia, the United Kingdom, and the United States, have worked together, along with other important allies and partners, to protect our shared values and promote security and prosperity. Today, with the formation of AUKUS, we recommit ourselves to this vision.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-44109

Quad Leaders’ Meeting

14 September 2021

At the invitation of US President Biden, I will travel to Washington D.C. from 21-24 September.

This will be my first visit to the United States since President Biden took office. I look forward to reaffirming our 70-year alliance, and to discussing ways to further strengthen our security and economic partnership.

I will also participate in the first face-to-face meeting of Quad leaders, with President Biden, Prime Minister Modi of India and Prime Minister Suga of Japan. Reconvening this important group reinforces our commitment to the Indo-Pacific COVID-19 recovery, and our efforts towards peace, prosperity and stability in our region.

The Quad represents four great democracies working in partnership for an Indo-Pacific region that is open, inclusive, resilient and anchored by shared principles.

On my return to Australia on 26 September, I will be complying with the health advice and quarantine requirements, as will accompanying staff, officials and media.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-44108

A Family Sized Dose of Hope as Morrison Government Secures a Million More Moderna Doses to Bolster Community Pharmacy Vaccine Program

12 September 2021

Prime Minister, Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister for Women, Minister for Health and Aged Care

The Morrison Government has secured an additional one million Moderna doses from European Union member states to further bolster Australia’s vaccination programme.

The extra doses, along with the first shipment of the already contracted doses, will arrive within the next week and go directly to local community pharmacies across the country and into the arms of Australians.

This comes at the same time that the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) is now also recommending Moderna for everyone 12 years and older. In line with approval by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), everyone aged 12-59, including families, can access these doses from their community pharmacy.

The doses have been sourced by the Government from surplus vaccines destined for Spain, Czech Republic, Portugal and Bulgaria and will further bolster the community pharmacy vaccine rollout.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said the extra supplies of Modena represented a family sized dose of hope.

“Families will now be able to go along together to their pharmacy to get their vaccinations,” the Prime Minister said.

“This additional supply also enables us to direct urgent supplies where they are needed most, and make up the final ground for everyone in Australia to be offered a jab, originally set back in January for in October.

“In October we’re going to have enough vaccines in the country to have offered everyone a jab meaning we’ll be able to take the next steps in our plan to safely reopen Australia.

“First thing’s first to take the steps to safely reopening – get vaccinated. The next few weeks are going to be critical to encourage your friends, family and colleagues to get the vaccine.

“As all these extra doses arrive in Australia we’ll see queues for vaccines cut at the more than 9,000 places you can get vaccinated. Mum, dad and the kids will also be able to go to their local community pharmacist to get vaccinated as a family all at the same time.

“These are doses of hope for families in particular as we move to reopen Australia safely.

“These additional Moderna doses build on four million Pfizer doses sourced from the United Kingdom, one million from Poland and 500,000 from Singapore.

“I’d like to thank the European Commission and partnering countries for their cooperation, and Sweden and Norway for their assistance. I also thank Moderna with whom we have also worked closely to secure this arrangement.”

Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister for Women, Marise Payne said Australia’s network of diplomats had been working around the clock in securing agreements such as this.

“This agreement further demonstrates the important role our diplomats play and the strength of Australia’s bonds with European nations and the European Union,” Minister Payne said.

“Australia is committed to working with all partners across the world because our shared recovery from COVID-19 depends on it.”

The safety of the Australian people is the Government’s top priority and upon arrival the Moderna doses will undergo the same TGA batch release process as all other COVID-19 vaccines.

With the vaccine rollout program expanding throughout community pharmacies, Minister for Health and Aged Care Greg Hunt said local community pharmacies would begin to receive Moderna doses within a fortnight.

“These doses are adding additional capacity and will further ramp up the vaccination rate of young Australians,” Minister Hunt said.

“Australia’s vaccine rollout is continuing to hit record levels every day, with 22.4 million doses delivered nationally. Some 13.6 million people have had one dose, and over 41 per cent of the eligible population are now fully vaccinated.”

These doses plus Australia's already contracted supply will be shared with over 3600 community pharmacies across Australia. Up to 1800 Pharmacies will begin to receive doses through the week of the 20th of September and the next 1800 pharmacies will follow shortly after.

Supplies will arrive later this week and go through standard clearing procedures with the TGA.

National President of the Pharmacy Guild of Australia Trent Twomey said pharmacies across the country were ready to help even more Australians to be vaccinated.

"Community pharmacies have kept their doors open during bushfires, floods and a once in a generation global pandemic,” Mr Twomey said.

“Community pharmacies are now stepping up to vaccinate Australian families against COVID-19.

“I encourage all Australians to visit their local community pharmacy and roll up their sleeves to get vaccinated."

Getting vaccinated at your local community pharmacy is easy and convenient.

So far approximately half a million AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines have been administered through community pharmacies across the country.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43564

Opinion Piece - 20 Years on from 9/11

11 September 2021

There are moments in time when things we thought were certain can change in a heartbeat and we know that nothing will ever be the same again.

We recall exactly where we were, what we were doing, and the shock we felt as the foundations of our world seemed to shake.

September 11, 2001 in the United States was one of those days.

That night in Sydney, as dawn broke in America, Jen and I were at home having a quiet evening together watching television. When the news broke through, we sat and watched in numb disbelief.

Twenty years have now passed since New York and Washington were attacked. On this anniversary, we remember and honour the 2,977 people who lost their lives on that day and the many more since.

Our hearts go out to the families of the 10 Australians among them, and the many other Australians affected by those terrible events.

It was a time when we saw both the worst and the best of humanity.

Amid the devastation, we saw acts of love, great bravery and sacrifice.

The calls being made to love ones from burning towers, as the tragedy came down around them. Messages of love and good-bye.

But also calls of brave defiance. ‘Let’s roll’ Tod Beamer said, as he and others on board took back Flight 93 and crashed into the fields of Pennsylvania, to thwart the terrorists’ evil plans.

And the thousands of first responders, many sacrificing themselves, as they charged into the burning towers, and those who then converged to find survivors and clear the rubble of ground zero.

We pay tribute to all their heroism and sacrifice. 

First and foremost let us must remember this terrible event as an awful human tragedy, causing great personal suffering and grief to so many.

When I think of September 11, my mind always casts forward to just over a year later on October 12, when the same evil terror, that blasphemes the very religion it claims to serve, was visited on 88 Australians in Bali.

Each year the families and friends of those Australians killed on that day gather on the cliffs at Coogee in Sydney to remember. I have often joined them there. 

Despite the passing of the years, their sorrow and mourning, their loss and grief continues. And so it will be for the families of the victims of the September 11 terrorist attacks today.

So on this anniversary, let our first thoughts be with them as we send our sincere condolences for their terrible loss and to President Biden and all the people of the United States.

But let us also appreciate that September 11 reminds us that we can never take our peace, our freedom and our way of life for granted.

A little more than a decade before the terrible events of September 11, the Berlin Wall fell. Some thought this marked ‘the end of history’ and that the cause of freedom had forever prevailed.

September 11 reminded us that freedom is always fragile. As Ronald Reagan said, it “must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation”.

That day was an attack on free peoples everywhere. It was an attack on our way of life and the values of liberal democracy. Despite the pain inflicted on that day, the terrorists ultimately failed in their attempts to crush our resolve and change our way of life.

Our then Prime Minister John Howard was in Washington D.C. on that terrible day. He saw the smoke plume in Washington. He also saw the great spirit and enduring faith of the American people.

The Howard Government invoked the ANZUS Treaty, for the first and only time in its 50 year history. As John Howard said to Parliament on his return, “if the comradeship, the friendship and the common bonds of democracy and a belief in liberty, fraternity and justice mean anything, it means that the ANZUS Treaty applies.”

So when the Taliban refused to hand over Al-Qaeda terrorists, we supported a US-led operation to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and eliminate the capacity to stage more attacks against the West from Afghanistan. 

Together with the international community, we also laboured long and hard to help the Afghan people secure a better future.

Sadly, the fruits from those seeds of hope are now very uncertain.

But let us never doubt that our cause was, and always will be, a just one.

So on this day of remembrance, we also honour all who served in Afghanistan, especially the 41 Australians who died in the service of our country.

And on this day we re-dedicate Australia to the cause of peace and freedom and to the constant vigilance required to  deny the threat of terror.

Let us appreciate all those who work every day to keep us safe. Our police and security agencies, our defence forces, and thank them for their service.

Let us commit ourselves to continue to stand with our partners and allies - especially the United States - as we work together for a world that favours freedom.

Let us re-affirm the liberal democratic values that guide us and the truths we hold dear.

And above all, let us hold all those we love a little closer and be grateful for their blessing in our lives.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-44107

Interview with Jim Wilson, 2GB

10 September 2021

JIM WILSON: PM, good afternoon to you. 

PRIME MINISTER: G’day, Jim. Good to be here.

WILSON: Let's start with- yeah, good thank you. Thank you for your time. Let's start with the roadmap that was announced by the New South Wales Premier yesterday for this state. Once we hit the magical 70 per cent vaccine threshold, it gives us some hope, Prime Minister, and incentives to get the jab.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's right. And, then at 80 per cent again, and what the Premier has done here in New South Wales is totally consistent with that, with that national plan I set out several months ago. We'd been working on it since March of this year. It provides the way forward. The vaccinations are critical to that. It's not just all open in one day. It's a sensible, it's a safe plan. I think that's really important to reinforce, Jim. This is, this is something that’s carefully thought through. I've worked closely with the Premier on these issues and they've been thinking through, well, what does this mean for hospitalisations and the pressure on the hospital system. They've been modelling that out, getting themselves ready. And, so, you know, this is an all enabling Sydneysiders and people across New South Wales to be able to get to that next step and the one after that and the one after that.

WILSON: Yeah. Well, once we hit the 80 per cent mark, are you fully supportive of people in this state travelling overseas, even if other states haven't reached the target?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, other states will eventually get there, and most of them aren't that far behind, I should stress, and, you know, states like Tasmania and others, they've been doing really well as well. But, what's critical to make that happen is we've got to get home quarantine - that has to be operating so people who are vaccinated can go overseas and they can come back and quarantine at home. The hotel quarantine system - that won't be for those quarantine arrangements. That will only relate to unvaccinated people who are still coming back from overseas, residents, Australians and so on. But, for the travel to work, we've got to have the home quarantine in place. And, I know the Premier is working very quickly on that issue. We've had numerous discussions on that. I’ve spoken to the Treasurer about it as well. And, that's the issue that I'm currently, you know, pursuing with all the premiers and chief ministers - that we've got to get that home quarantine in place. That that means we can lift those caps for vaccinated people returning to Australia who are overseas. That means that people, more people can get home in the months ahead. And, vaccination enables that, but so does the home quarantine arrangements.

WILSON: What do you think suffices for the quarantine period at home? Does it have to be two weeks? Could it be shorter?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, at the moment it's two weeks, but that very question is one that the medical team are working on to see whether that can be altered at all, and whether that can be supported by testing, you know, in the second week, and things of that nature. So, you know, we're still working through those details and we've still got some time to make sure that that can all be worked through. But, at the moment, it's two weeks. But, and that's how it's being trialled in South Australia right now, and I know there are trials going ahead in New South Wales. So, we'll work through that. But, doing it at home means people can leave and they can come back. People who are vaccinated with the vaccines we recognise here in Australia - they'll be able to return also, and go into those those home quarantine arrangements.

WILSON: But the bottom line here, Prime Minister, is once - our listeners who are tuned into the program this afternoon - once they, once we get to that 80 per cent vaccine threshold, the prospect of flying overseas, even if other states haven't reached that point, that opportunity will be there for them?

PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, that returns.

WILSON: Yeah.

PRIME MINISTER: I mean, overall, we want the average across the country to be hitting those 80 per cent marks as well. But, you know, Victoria isn't too far behind. And, so, they're the two big and most populous states, and they're they're moving ahead and they're keen to get in exactly the same place. You know, everyone around the country wants that. I mean, these lockdowns and increasingly what will be lockouts - those states that are locking the rest of the country out - they’ll they'll be locked out. It won't be about keeping others out, it’ll be keeping them in. And, that's also something that I think will cause issues going ahead. But, it'll be up to those states to join the rest of the country.

WILSON: How concerned are you about Queensland and WA? In fact, this afternoon, WA Premier Mark McGowan hardly filled his state with confidence about getting a COVID jab. I just want to play this bit of audio from from the WA Premier from early this afternoon, PM.

[Excerpt plays]

WILSON: And the WA Premier, Prime Minister, says he won't open his state to people from New South Wales by Christmas, even if they're fully vaccinated and are willing to quarantine. You must be very, very frustrated and disappointed with that stance.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, let's see what happens. That's still still several months away, and I think the vaccination rates in WA will lift, particularly when they see people in, you know, Sydney and Melbourne and other parts of the country being able to travel and move around, and life is living with the virus. And, that's the future and the certainty that comes with that. I mean, Western Australians, they're outward looking people. They want to be connected to the rest of the country as well. They they want to be travelling overseas, they want to be doing all of those things. I understand people want things to be safe, but this is a safe plan. And, I think what we’ll demonstrate here in New South Wales and other parts of the country is that can be safely done. You can't, you can't go, you can't stay locked away forever. That is just not-, if not at 80 per cent, then when? Well, 85, 90, 95? I mean, you can't move the goalposts. We've done the work. We've worked out what's the safe way to do this. Other countries are doing it around the world, too. And, so it’s, you know, I think Australians just want to get on with it. I mean, lockdowns and lockouts, once you get above that 80 per cent vaccination rate, they do more harm than good. They, and we know what it's like here in Sydney. We know what it's like in Melbourne. We know what it's like in the ACT. These lockdowns, they cause a lot of harm, and and while these things may be necessary at particular points in time, and are preventing much more cases and more importantly, hospitalisations and serious illness, at 80 per cent we've got to say goodbye.

WILSON: If they don't get on board with the Doherty national model, will you withhold Commonwealth funding?

PRIME MINISTER: What do you mean - for hospitals and schools?

WILSON: Well, no, just as far as, would you, would you say to the states, for example, WA and Queensland, if you're not going to back this in, you agreed to it at National Cabinet, if you're not going to walk your talk, then we'll withhold Commonwealth funding?

PRIME MINISTER: But, withhold Commonwealth funding for what?

WILSON: Well, for projects, for infrastructure.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, no, we're not going to do that. No one's suggesting that. I mean, that wouldn't be fair to, I mean, to the citizens of Western Australia. I mean, they're Australians as well. I mean, they need those services like anybody else does.

WILSON: But, how about GST payments like the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg?

PRIME MINISTER: No, no, of course we wouldn’t be doing that.

WILSON: No?

PRIME MINISTER: That's that's not on the table. And, I mean, that's what pays for hospitals and schools.

WILSON: Ok. Well, what are your, what are your options …

PRIME MINISTER: I’m not going to punish the people of Western Australia. That would be very unfair.

WILSON: Sure. Sure. But, what are your options then? What are your options to pull these rogue premiers into line?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, that that's-, the Constitution means that states, whether it's New South Wales or Western Australia, they have always had - for over 100 years - control over public health in their states, Jim. And I, there seems to be this this this misinformation. There seems to be this fantasy that somehow there's a lever I can pull here, which makes the states, you know, conform to a federal policy. That doesn't exist. And, I can guarantee you, if we went to a referendum and we asked people to take those powers away from the states, I bet the public would actually would vote to keep the powers with the states. So, Jim, I just have to deal with the reality of what our Constitution says. And, we've put a national plan together. The premiers agreed to that, including the 70 and 80 per cent marks. So, let's just see who keeps the deal and keeps the faith with the Australian people. That's certainly what's happening here in New South Wales. I believe that is also what's going to happen in Victoria. Premier Andrews has been very supportive of the national plan, as has down in Tasmania with Premier Gutwein, and Premier Marshall in South Australia. And, I've got to say, I worked very, very closely with the Chief Minister Gunner up in the Northern Territory, and they had quite specific challenges up there with remote Indigenous communities, and that's a, that’s, it's a much harder, in many ways, challenge up there because of the nature of their geography and their populations and the high proportion of Indigenous people. So, you know, we're all working together and getting it done. The rest will catch up, Jim.

WILSON: I hope so, because like there's a lot of people listening to the program who, they get that news this afternoon, they’ve got loved ones in the West, loved ones in Queensland. It’s just heartbreaking, you know.

PRIME MINISTER: I agree. I agree. That's why we put the national plan together and we set it out. Now, look, premiers and some states which have low case numbers of COVID, I can understand why they want to keep things as they are. I get that. And, I can understand why many people in those states don't want that to change. But, you can't do that and connect with the rest of the country and the rest of the world. I mean you, when, when we’re, when we weren't, didn't, you know, when we last year, in particular, and early parts of this year, when we didn't have the vaccines, well, I can understand that you'd have to take those precautions. But, borders are no match for the vaccine. The vaccine is what will protect Australia, together with common sense, low-level measures - not lockdowns - just common sense things you do. We've got to live with this virus. We've all got to live with this virus, and we've got to live together and not apart.

WILSON: Is it your aim to have a national one size fits all vaccine passport that can be used here and abroad for those of us fully vaccinated, Prime Minister?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, they’re two issues. I mean, we have a responsibility as a Federal Government, for those who are travelling overseas, to have a record of vaccination that can link to people's travel documents when they're going overseas, and we're doing that. And, that is taking place right now and that will be ready. The other issue is is having a record of vaccination for Australians, ok. And, we've been doing that for 20 years. People have records of their vaccination, and that has to be digital. It has to be real time, because over time when we get to the booster stage next year, then, you know, people will need to know whether their vaccination is current, and if they let it lapse without the booster, then their vaccination won't be authenticated. So, our job as the Federal Government is to provide a record of vaccination. What will be happening in pretty much all the states, now, they've pretty much all agreed with a couple still holding out, but we're still working together with them. Well, not, holding out is an unfair way to put it. We're just working with them to finalise the details. Everybody's used to using the QR code system, particularly here in Sydney and across New South Wales. You're going into a shop or a pub or a registered club or something like that, you scan the QR code and that provides a registration of where you are and that's being used by contact tracers. So, everybody's really used to using that technology. What will be available is that your registration, your your your record of vaccination, will have a little document number on it, and you can plug that little document number into the registration with the state government app, and that works exactly the same way.

WILSON: Ok, and what happens to the people, a lot of our listeners who might not be technologically minded. Will there be like a paper document as well?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course, there already is.

WILSON: Right.

PRIME MINISTER: There already is, and that's available. People can have a record of their vaccination …

WILSON: From myGov, yeah.

PRIME MINISTER: That's that’s what the Federal Government and the health system provides. How that's used is up to the state governments and individual businesses and who also have a right to decide who comes in and out of their premises. That's not a decision for the Government. That's a decision for them.

WILSON: How do you stop fake vaccine passports? Are you concerned by them?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's why we've built the technology on the record of our vaccination that these numbers ‘ping’, as they say - they authenticate back with the master database. And, so, to ensure that if someone is saying, in their registered app in New South Wales, if that says that they have an authenticated vaccination, that has proved it against the national vaccination database.

WILSON: Speaking to the Prime Minister Scott Morrison. Tomorrow, Prime Minister, marks 20 years since the September 11 terrorist attack in New York.

PRIME MINISTER: Yeah.

WILSON: I mean, it changed the world forever. Can you remember where you were on that day?

PRIME MINISTER: I can, I remember it was later in the evening, and Jen and I, we didn't, we didn't have the kids then. That was obviously 22 years ago. They're not that old. And, we were just in bed that night at home. We'd had a, you know, just a normal evening, and we'd been watching telly and it came on and we just sat there numbed, watching this unfold. It was, it was, it was unreal. It was hard to to take it all in. And, it was incredibly disturbing and distressing. You could, you could barely believe what you were seeing. And, it was one of those moments that, you know, nothing's going to be the same.

WILSON: Well, before 9/11 Australia had zero national counter-terrorism laws. Now, we have 92 of them, amounting to more than 5,000 pages of rules, powers and offences. It did change the world forever, didn't it?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, it did. And, you think back, you know, we've just been through the Olympics - and you’ve been to more Olympics than most, Jim - and you’ll remember the 2000 Sydney Olympics was the last real Olympics where those sorts of issues were not as top of mind in the public's mind as they, of course, they are now. Everyone thinks about those issues now, has for 20 years. Of course, back in Sydney, they took great precautions around those issues. They weren't naive to them and they were great, successful Games. But, when we think of all these public events now, it's probably the first thing that comes to people's mind. And it, and the world did change after that. I mean, my mind often, Jim, often goes when I'm thinking, I mean, tomorrow my mind is really going to the families of those who lost people on that day and, you know, had a message perhaps on their answering machine, it would have been back then. You know, people in the towers who would have been calling to say I love you and goodbye. And, just the thought of that is just, you know, it's very upsetting. But, I think that's where our first thought should be, just the the awful human tragedy. You know, and we think back to the Bali bombing on October 12th the following year, and we think of those 88 Australians we lost that day. And, I don't know, you may have been down to that service they have every year down there on the cliffs at Coogee. I’ve been many times, and just the sorrow never goes away. And, it'll be the same for those families. There are ten Australians who were killed on that day, too, that we're aware of, and their families will be remembering it from twenty years ago. That's, it's very sad. There are a lot of other implications - terrorism, ensuring we stand with our great friend, the allies, the United States - and we stand with them tomorrow and we think of them tomorrow. But, first and foremost, I just think about the terrible tragedy that took place and so many people's lives.

WILSON: Yes, it’s absolutely shocking and so much heartbreak, and our thoughts go out to loved ones. As always, we appreciate your time, Prime Minister.

PRIME MINISTER: Good on you, Jim. Cheers mate.

WILSON: Good on you.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43563

Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News

7 September 2021

KIERAN GILBERT: Ashleigh, thank you very much. Prime Minister, appreciate your time today. We’ve seen a fair bit of flack for you, in terms of your trip to Sydney for Father's Day. I want to start with that before we get to matters in relation to the pandemic. Can you understand why some people look at that trip and think it's unfair, given many families were unable to catch up on Father's Day themselves? 

PRIME MINISTER: I can understand people's frustration, but I do think that there has been a lot of misinformation about this. I mean, I live in Sydney. I often have to be here for work. There was no requirement to get an exemption to go to Sydney. Like all members of parliament, the parliament session ended on Thursday. I had further meetings here with National Cabinet on Friday and I returned home. There was no exemption required for me to return home, as I do on any occasion that I do have that opportunity. The exemption I require is to come back here to the ACT. And as Prime Minister, of course, I need to come back to the ACT to have various meetings, there's very secure information that I can only receive directly, access to individuals. 

It's an important part of my job to be in Canberra and I'll be heading back home this weekend as well. And later in this week when I'm no longer required to be here in the ACT. So the issue is about having exemption to being Canberra. Members of Parliament have all gone back and I went back to my home like they all did. But it requires me often to be back here in Canberra more often than other ministers. These arrangements have been in place with the ACT to enable ministers, whether it's myself, and indeed, if the Leader of the Opposition is required to be here in Canberra, they would get, they would get similar treatment. 

GILBERT: But it's isn't about the fact that so much of the nation, so many of us are doing it tough in terms of not seeing our dads, our granddads. And yet you're talking about moving between two places that are in lockdown and you were able to because of your position? 

PRIME MINISTER: All Members of Parliament and particularly those who have special responsibilities in Canberra, just like essential workers need to be able to leave their home and go and work in their workplaces. And they have to be subject to testing, just as I'm subject to testing here, just as other members, ministers and others have had to be here in Canberra going back to last year's lockdown in Victoria. I mean, the government still needs to function and we return home when we're able to return home. That hasn't happened that often this year, I've got to tell you. But, you know, that's the nature of the job and we all accept that. But the suggestion that somehow this was an unusual arrangement for members of parliament, indeed ministers, well that just wouldn't be true. 

GILBERT: Bill Shorten, the Labor frontbencher, says that you've been guilty of appalling judgement on this. What do you say to that sort of criticism? 

PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a bit of a cheap shot, to be honest. I mean, Bill knows full well what these rules are. In fact, he took advantage of them. Three weeks- he went home and spent the last three weeks rather than being in parliament because he could return to Victoria. Now, he chose not to come back here to Canberra for the parliamentary sittings. My ministers stayed here, bar one who had particular family reasons to still remain where they were. But, you know, we got on with that job. I mean, Bill knows that. Bill knows that the Prime Minister needs to go backwards and forwards between these places to do the work. He understands that secure documents, secure discussions that need to be held. So he knows all of that. And so, frankly, it's a bit of a cheap shot, particularly given the leader of the Labor Party and I, you know, both understand these arrangements and don't take issue with them. So, you know, it's just cheap politics. 

GILBERT: When you look at this broader issue, though, you were asked about the NRL families. I know it's a very different matter, but I guess the perception amongst many is that there's double standards. If you know the right people, you get special treatment. And you were asked about them on 4BC, about those families from the NRL, about cricket teams getting exemptions while people who are grieving family members and so on aren’t. And you said, "well, I share people's frustration about that. No doubt about that." That's what you said last week. 

PRIME MINISTER: That's right. 

GILBERT: Aren't we seeing another episode of people being frustrated by double standards? 

PRIME MINISTER: Well, if I brought my family here to Canberra outside those rules, I would understand that. But I haven't done that. My family has remained in Sydney in lockdown. I haven't brought them here to Canberra. There has been no special rules or exemptions provided to my family. They've remained there and they've remained separated from me for quite a long period of time. And when the rules enable me to come back to Canberra, having returned home, then they're the rules, as the ACT Chief Minister himself has set out today. So my family has received no special rules. As Prime Minister, I have a job to do. I'm doing that. It also requires me to be here. 

GILBERT: You're also being accused of of not being upfront about it with the Instagram post on the day. For our viewers who aren't familiar with it, it was a post, a very nice photo of you and Jenny and the kids, but it was from many months ago. And the argument is that you were trying to be misleading about that and not being up front, that you did actually go to Sydney for the day. What do you say in response? 

PRIME MINISTER: I think that's very cynical. I mean, the only official engagement I had on the weekend was the South Australian State Council of the Liberal Party, which I beamed in from Kirribilli House from a very, you know, publicly recognisable office in Kirribilli. And there are journalists who were there in South Australia who saw those images. 

GILBERT: So you weren't trying to cover it up then?

PRIME MINISTER: No, of course not. I mean, you know, in politics, people like to take a lot of swings at you and you get pretty used to that. But sometimes those jabs can be low blows. 

GILBERT: Are you confident that Sydney and New South Wales is up to it in terms of hospital capacity with the numbers we're seeing. Already ICU is under strain in terms of personnel and so on, is it up to it? 

PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, that's the advice we're getting. And I speak regularly with New South Wales, as does Professor Murphy and Greg Hunt. I mean, of course, it's going to come under pressure and parts of the system are under more pressure than others. And so the workforce, the systems are being optimised to deal with that pressures. They've done very good modelling on the peaking of cases and then the peaking of what the pressure will be on the hospital system. And that's very important. And I think the Premier's been very clear that she's expecting those peak demands on the system to occur in late October after the peak of cases has actually occurred. So they're planning for it. They're preparing for it. Will it come under stress? Of course it will. Of course it will, as it has all around the world. But this is part of our passage through to live with this virus. And that's the challenge all states and territories will have. You know, if we want to move forward and live with the virus, this is one of the things we're going to have to pass through. And that's why under the national plan, the preparation of the hospital system and the public health system to deal with cases which will inevitably arise …

GILBERT: But particularly about the personnel levels, though, are you are you being reassured that we have the people? Because I know the ventilators are there, that the beds are there, but do we have the right people there?

PRIME MINISTER: That is the right challenge to be looking at. I mean, yes, the beds and the bricks and mortar and all of them and the ventilators and we've done very well on all of that. And the management of the workforce is the challenge. And that's why the private hospital system agreement that we put in place as a federal government, which has already freed up 300 nurses to support the system and further support is provided. The other key thing is this Kieran, and that is moving into a different phase about how you isolate close contacts. Now, currently, you know, your furlough and have, we have in the past furloughed large sections of the health workforce because they've been close contacts to cases. Now, when they're double vaccinated, the need for that disappears. 

GILBERT: Sure. 

PRIME MINISTER: And so you can take greater advantage of the movement and the scale of your workforce because they are vaccinated. That is a great advantage we have this time round and dealing with this pressure on the system than we did, say, last year. 

Now, I remember last year dealing with the Victorian crisis. That was a major problem both in aged care and within the public health system because there wasn't a vaccine. And so you had to isolate health workers. This time around, the vaccine gives us that added strength in the system. Now, I'm sure the Premier will tell you the same thing. We're not thinking it's not going to be without its challenges. It is. But they're up to it and they're planning for it. They're readying themselves for it. And all states and territories need to be engaged in the same process. Now, I know Victoria is, I've had those same discussions with Premier Andrews at National Cabinet. We have just put- this has been on the agenda every single week as we're seeking to prepare. 

GILBERT: On Daniel Andrews, you mentioned him, because just a few moments before we began this interview, he had a red hot crack at the federal government after the reports that Victoria received less than what they should. And it's a similar sentiment coming from other states, Queensland amongst them today after data was reported by the ABC showing that Sydney got more than its fair share, more over and above the amount that had been declared. Daniel Andrews says "Gladys Berejiklian is in a sprint, they're in an egg and spoon race" because they've been dudded, essentially. What do you say to that? 

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't share the view. I mean, Victoria had doses brought forward in their case as well on two occasions. In their first crisis that they had and which they were able to come out of. And when they were hit again, we brought forward doses for Victoria. 

On top of that, four million doses coming from the United Kingdom, half a million that have come from Singapore, and another half a million that were able to get from Poland, which was shared right across all the states and territories, excluding New South Wales. New South Wales got the 500,000 because I made it very clear you might recall going back, I think it was June or early July, sorry, in July. And the argument was being put forward that New South Wales should take doses from other states. Well, I'll tell you who said no to that. It was me. It wasn't the states and territories ... 

GILBERT: So nothing? There's been no underhanded arrangement with New South Wales?

PRIME MINISTER: It was me, because I wasn't going to have doses moved from other states to New South Wales. I went out and got more doses from Poland and that's where the additional doses …

GILBERT: Mr Andrews says he's been blindsided by this, that they weren't aware of these ...

PRIME MINISTER: Well I don't share his view. What we need to get on and do is vaccinate. Now, when I often refer to Tasmania, now Tasmania, South Australia, both states that have had, in fact, they didn't get the bring forwards that Victoria got that Queensland got that New South Wales got. But their vaccination rates have been in many cases higher, particularly in Tasmania's case, ACT's the same. They haven't had any bring forward of doses. And theirs is one of the highest in the country, Northern Territory also. So what we all need to get on and do, we've just gone from four and a half million MRNA doses, Pfizer doses, to nine million in one month. That's all been delivered not by state governments, by the federal government. And we're getting it out to all of them and we look forward to getting them into arms.

GILBERT: Have you got any other pipelines for other deals like that? [Inaudible]

PRIME MINISTER: We're working on some other issues, but the, the crunch time was this month, and that's why the UK deal, the Polish deal, the Singapore deal were so important ...

GILBERT: There might be other deals coming [inaudible]?

PRIME MINISTER: … because, because it got them in this month. Now, next month, you know, we've got 11 million mRNA doses next month …

GILBERT: Gotcha.

PRIME MINISTER: … and the month after that. So, the real crunch was on this month, which we've been able to alleviate. Now, what does that mean? It means we've been able to effectively pull forward the supply, the supply constrained period by a month.

GILBERT: But, then you see the likes of Craig Kelly with his interventions. He's a, he's a public health menace, isn’t he?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, I’ve no time for anything he's saying, and I'm not going to give him anything he's saying any publicity. I suggest you don’t [sic] do the same.

GILBERT: Well, can you reign him in?

PRIME MINISTER: He doesn’t, he’s not in my party. 

GILBERT: I got a, I got a text message this morning from him. It is annoying me, I'm sure it's annoying many around the country with this misinformation, the anti-vax rubbish. Why, why don't you say, ‘I won't accept his vote in the House of Representatives’?

PRIME MINISTER: It, what he's peddling is rubbish and it's dangerous. We don't support it and he does not sit in my Party Room.

GILBERT: You talk about the reopening, that we're going to come out of this together. But, WA says 90 per cent vaccination. Queensland wants kids vaccinated. Tassie, ACT want around 90 per cent. We're not really going to come out of this together, though, are we?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I think that a lot is being said now, but let's, let's be clear about what the plan says. When you get to 80 per cent, what it says is domestic restrictions on vaccinated persons should be lifted. We're not talking about willy-nilly movement of people who are unvaccinated around the country. We're not talking about planeloads of COVID going from one state to the next. That's a nonsense. That's not what is under contemplation …

GILBERT: So, there’ll be different paces, is it?

PRIME MINISTER: … And I don't, and I don’t think any premier thinks that's the case. We're going to have some states that go into 70 and 80 per cent with low levels of cases. Good, good. And, what the Doherty modelling shows is that for those states, the restrictions that are needed once you go into 70 and 80 per cent, are much, much less than what needs to be in place in cases like New South Wales and in Victoria, where the caseload - and, oh arguably in ACT, but their case numbers are becoming more under control - in those two states - in New South Wales and Victoria - when you go into 70 and 80 per cent, well, obviously they won't have the same level of of eased restrictions that you'd see in Western Australia or Queensland. So, I've accepted and we all know, we all understand every state is coming from a different place. But, this is where we need to end up, Kieran. To enable Australians to travel again, overseas, vaccinated Australians, for vaccinated Australians to come to Australia, for people to be able to move around, then home quarantine needs to work. And, the QR code readers that the states have, they need to work to be able to show whether someone has been vaccinated or not. Now, we're working with the states and territories to enable that. In New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia they have very good systems that can accommodate that.

GILBERT: Is that just for travel or you thinking for sporting events, restaurants, across the board?

PRIME MINISTER: All of the above, because as you know, any venue, any venue, any pub, any cafe, any restaurant, any shop can, has every right under Australia's property laws to be able to deny entry to people who are unvaccinated.

GILBERT: Like a vaccine passport?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, they have that right to be able to deny that. And, so, the QR code reader can be used as a way of just, so it's easy for people, you just go in like you normally do right now …

GILBERT: Yep.

PRIME MINISTER: … and it will show whether you're vaccinated or not. Now, for premises that are allowing unvaccinated people in, it also helps us because when they log in and we know they are unvaccinated, they’re the first people we're going to call, for their safety. So, these QR code readers that tell people whether you're vaccinated or not are actually helping those who are unvaccinated as well, where they're allowed to go to places.

GILBERT: Do you want to see these sort of certificates, though? Effectively, it’s, they’re passports, essentially?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's not how I refer to them. What I refer to them, people have certificates of vaccination. I have one. We all have them. Of course, we have them for many other things as well. And, you're going to need them for international travel as well. But, for international travel to work, we need home quarantine done, and I'm very encouraged by what we're seeing in South Australia and the technology trial that's underway there. New South Wales going down a same path. In Western Australia as well, they've been working with an app for some of their domestic-based home quarantine, which has been quite effective. Home quarantine is where we go next. And, the length of that quarantine also was what we're looking at. Now, I'll be following up last Friday's meeting with the premiers, writing to them, looking to get some timetables about their introduction of home quarantine.

GILBERT: Ok.

PRIME MINISTER: Also, following up this issue of the integration of our technology that can enable fully vaccinated theatres, fully vaccinated events, you know, a Bluesfest which is fully vaccinated. So, these events, people can get back on stage, restaurants can get back and open their doors to their patrons and be able to operate under much less restrictions. But, those two things have to be enabled by, you know, the integration of that technology on the QR code reader app that people have at a state level. And, secondly, for people to be able to leave the country if they're vaccinated and return, to lift the caps on airports for people returning back from overseas, home quarantine needs to be at scale and needs to be tested and ready. And, that's what's happening now, and that's what I'll continue to push to open the country up, because that's what enables the national plan.

GILBERT: Ok.

PRIME MINISTER: I’m now, I'm focused on the things that are going to enable the implementation of that national plan, and home quarantine does the job.

GILBERT: Two very important issues I want to wrap up our discussion with, and I start with the ‘shadow pandemic’, as Pat McGorry calls it, the mental health crisis.

PRIME MINISTER: Yep.

GILBERT: Hundreds of kids in Melbourne alone being admitted to hospital every week. Do we have to start - and I know you've invested a lot in it, in the Federal Government’s invested a lot of dollars - but state officials, media, everyone, do we have to increasingly focus on the cost of the restrictions, because it is a tragedy we’re seeing?

PRIME MINISTER: Of course, of course. I mean, a lot has talked about the cost of the lockdowns, obviously, on small businesses and livelihoods, and that's devastating. But, the mental health toll on Australians from these lockdowns is to the point of unbearability. And, it is, it is affecting in some states even worse than others, particularly those who’ve been through more lockdowns, and I have no doubt the premiers are very aware of that. I'm in regular contact with Pat McGorry. He's one of my most important sources of counsel on these issues, as he has been for many, many years. And, that's why we’ve poured the resources in. And, can I tell you, there are a lot of heroes in the pandemic, but those who are on the other end of the phone - on Lifeline, Kids Helpline, Beyond Blue, the Butterfly Foundation - we've seen, you know, a surge in some disorders over the course of, particularly amongst young people. This terrifies every parent. But, this is the urgency that should be, you know, pushing us on to implement the national plan. 

Lockdowns will do more harm than good once we go past 80 per cent. Seventy per cent gives us the opportunity for the soft opening, to ease into that 80 per cent. There's no freedom day. That's not what this is about. This is about a smart, science-based way to ease-in to that living with the virus stage above 80 per cent. We're making great progress on it. The vaccines are there, the supply is there. Please come forward, everyone, and get that vaccine. Your second dose of AstraZeneca for those over 60, your first as well, continuing. But, those vaccination rates amongst our older population now, which I now include myself, is, you know, they're going very, very strong, and that provides a layer of protection. And, the kids - September 13, 12 to 15, they get to have those vaccinations as well. That's an, also a very important part of the plan.

GILBERT: Now, as we speak, the Women's Safety Summit is in to day two.

PRIME MINISTER: Yep.

GILBERT: The Gillard National Plan, ten years ago, 2011 was when it began. It's not seen, well, it’s, basically what we've seen is sexual violence rates go up since then. How will your plan be any different? 

PRIME MINISTER: Well, first of all, the goal is to end that violence. It's an even more ambitious goal. It's a bit like, you know, when we adopted the suicide prevention goal, and we all understand that these remain big challenges. But, you have to go for the, for the absolute outcome and use every effort. Now, I know that Julia Gillard's plan was the best of intentions plan, just as mine will be. And, we invested in the Gillard plan over all those years in a bipartisan way. 

What I want to see, Kieran, is just us continue to deal with this in a, what I said yesterday, an a-partisan way. There should be no politics in this at all. This should just be about supporting the services and the resources that are needed, not just at a Commonwealth level but at a state level as well. And, that's what the national plan does. It brings all of those governments together, all of those agencies together. Now, we have put down $1.1 billion on women's safety alone. That's the biggest investment in a national plan there has been. But, I described it as a down payment. The scale of this problem, like so many others we're dealing with - mental health challenges we’ve just talked about, national suicide prevention, mental health more generally in the population, aged care, national disability. These are all big problems that we are solving, but they're tough and they're complex. And, you know what, I think the Australian people understand there are not simple answers to this. They know because they live with these problems. They know the complexity of what contributes to it, and they know how hard it is to to unravel and solve those things, often in their own lives, let alone trying to do that at a national scale. So, I think there is just a, an absolute momentum of dealing with this, and I think what we have to do in this, Kieran, is start accepting each other's good intentions in this. No one has a mortgage on good intentions when it comes to dealing with these very difficult issues. We all come to the table trying to do our best. We, you know, it's like on Closing the Gap and dealing with Indigenous disadvantage. I think one of the reasons we've been able to push forward in some of the things we've done there over the last few years, is we've stopped, we've stopped this process of trying to judge each other's intentions and motives. You know, we're all just trying to do the right thing here.

GILBERT: Prime Minister Scott Morrison, appreciate it.

PRIME MINISTER: Thanks a lot, Kieran.

https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/release/transcript-43561