Press Conference - Kirribilli, NSW
28 February 2020
PRIME MINISTER: Kīa ora, g’day. It’s wonderful to welcome Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern here on our annual bilateral engagement together and it’s particularly wonderful to have her here in my home city of Sydney on a spectacular Sydney day and wonderful to have you all here with this tremendous vista behind us which carries, I think, a very strong tourism message, as much as anything else to say, Prime Minister but it is wonderful to welcome you here.
The spirit of friendship that exists between Australian and New Zealand is long, it has been borne out of years of friendship but also, in particular, dealing with significant challenges and through those challenges, we have always stood side by side to face whatever comes our way. And in recent times, together we have had a lot that has come our way. We're approaching the anniversary of the Christchurch massacre and those times still ring very much in the minds of Australians and no doubt, of course, of New Zealander and once again, we extend our great condolences and sympathies to all those who, even a year on, as they will in that life-changing moment, will be dealing with that atrocity throughout the course of their lives.
We also have been more recently involved together in dealing with the terrible tragedy at White Island. I want to thank you again and the people of New Zealand for the tremendous care that you provided to all of those Australians and the deep sympathies that were expressed. But the care to the families that was provided and the prompt way in which all the New Zealand authorities acted so swiftly to come to the aid of those who were in terrible, terrible distress. And more recently, of course, our Kiwi cousins have been here, more than 400 of them, coming to our aid during the recent Black Summer bushfires. They were involved at all levels, whether it was fighting the fires, or in emergency services, through their Defence Force, the number of times I went straight out of the tarmac to chat to some Kiwi chopper pilots, and the work they were doing, and just to receive their encouragement and I know what they were delivering on the ground was delivering great encouragement to Australians going through some of their worst times ever. That's the nature of this relationship.
Today we have had the opportunity to speak on many issues that are part of the strategic relationship, the Defence relationship, the economic relationship, and most importantly at the moment dealing with the Coronavirus. Sharing our borders and ensuring those borders are well maintained, together with New Zealand, Australia and New Zealand have got ahead of this issue and we're staying ahead of this issue. And that means we will get through this issue together, Australia and New Zealand and we will be able to provide what we believe is the best level of preparedness anywhere in the world. This part of the world, in Australia and New Zealand, is safe when it comes to these issues. We're not complacent about it. We're taking the steps that are necessary to ensure that our citizens are kept safe. I want to thank the New Zealand Government and Prime Minister Ardern and all of your officials, your health officials, and others who have been working so closely with us. Most recently, that included an Air New Zealand flight, which brought Australians home from China, and equally, Australians under a Qantas flag bringing Australians home as well. So it's been a very productive meeting, as usual, and it's an annual gathering that we tend to do a lot more together as the course of the year unfolds, whether it is on making the internet safer, holding terrorists to account when it comes to their proliferation of obscene content through the internet. That has been another highlight of our cooperation over the course of the past year.
But with that, I will ask the Prime Minister to make some opening comments and then we, I understand, have a process for taking questions from the New Zealand and the Australian media. Prime Minister.
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Kīa ora. Thank you, Prime Minister Morrison. It is indeed a beautiful day here in Sydney, but with a wind that would rival Wellington. Which I don't think is having quite the same effect on you as it is on me. It is a pleasure to be here for our annual meeting. It is fair to say that since we last met, as the Prime Minister has mentioned, tragedy and disaster have befallen our two countries. They say that in moments of that nature, the true character of an individual comes to the fore and I believe the same could be said of nations too. In that vein, Australia has proven again to be the closest of friends to us. The eruption of Whakaari White Island had a devastating impact and you lost your own in that tragedy. Yet, Prime Minister, you and Australia could not have been more supportive of New Zealand in that time, from the offer of specialist staff, the collaboration on incredibly complex Medivac operations, right through to the mere fact that those Australian families who lost loved ones still had the heart and extraordinary kindness to send letters back to New Zealand, acknowledging the people who had touched them and at Whakaari and that Aotearoa would be connected to them.
I acknowledge too that this tragedy occurred in the backdrop of your own tragedy, as Australia battled bushfires of such devastating intensity. We were devastated by the scale of what your country was experiencing. There was an incredible desire to help. During the season we contributed, as you have said, 276 firefighting personnel, a number of Defence assets that included 139 personnel there, and additional staff. As we watched the smoke reach our shores, it only furthered our desire to do everything we could to support Australia and my message today is that we remain only a phone call away - quite literally, as Prime Minister Morrison and I showed in a recent press conference, that he inadvertently dialled into but these are only recent illustrations of the way we are connected and the way we work together and Prime Minister Morrison and I discussed those other areas today in quite some detail, whether it's work in the Pacific on climate-related issues, boosting the circular economy and improving waste management, coordination and support of one another as we tackle COVID-19, which did dominate discussions today, our ongoing commitment to make it easier for our businesses to transact with one another, including E-invoicing, biosecurity detection, Indigenous collaborations we signed - and the list goes on.
These are all indicative of a friendship that is grounded in our history and a friendship that we value. But friendships aren't just reaffirmed in times of tragedy. They must stand up to the test of politics too and in the face of politics, the New Zealand and Australia relationship is being tested. We appreciate that many Kiwis have taken up the opportunity to live and work in Australia. Many more than has happened in reverse. Not every Kiwi migrant will be perfect but evidence shows that the vast majority are providing a net benefit to Australia. They earn more, they are more likely to be employed, and they pay more tax than their Aussie-born counterparts. They are Australia's best migrants. But rather than them being given security to keep contributing, in return their rights are being eroded. Simple rights like assistance from the National Disability Insurance Scheme, even though they pay into the scheme's levy. Or the ability to join the Defence Force, or even become a federal civil servant. Kiwis want to contribute to the place that is now their home but they are not being given the potential to do that to their fullest.
Separate again is the issue of deportations. Australia is well within its rights to deport individuals who break your laws. New Zealand does the same but we have a simple request - send back Kiwis. Genuine Kiwis. Do not deport your people and your problems. I have heard countless cases of individuals who on any common sense test identify as Australians. Just a few weeks ago I met a woman who moved to Australia, not much older than 1 year old. She told me she had no connection to our country, but had three children in Australia. She was in a crisis centre, having returned to a country she did not feel was her own. I have heard from those who work in our judiciary that they have seen cases before our courts of individuals who are failing attempts to reintegrate or rehabilitate, because the success of these rehabilitation programs are reliant on a network of people, a network of family, and they have none of those. Now, I'm not asking that Australia stops this policy. But you have deported more than 2,000 individuals and amongst them will be genuine Kiwis who do need to learn the consequences of their actions. But amongst those 2,000 are individuals who are too young to become criminals on our watch, they were too young to become patched gang members, too young to be organised criminals. We will own our people. We ask that Australia stops exporting theirs.
I want to conclude by just reaffirming something I have said often. We will continue to maintain rights for Australians in New Zealand. We do not wish to have a race to the bottom. We do remain confident that in time by working together we will find solutions that reaffirm just how important our relationship is to us and testament to that relationship is the fact that we can raise these issues frankly and we do. Finally, again, PM Morrison, thank you for the chance again today to discuss these issues, issues that are important to each of us and I again say that I have no leader I can confidently work so closely together with as I do with you and that has proven so important in our darkest of hours. May we look forward to better times ahead.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you, Prime Minister now we are going to go to New Zealand journalists first, and then Australian journalists. So, I will ask Prime Minister Ardern to call the first question.
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: I believe we have Anna Bracewell-Worrall from Newshub.
JOURNALIST: Is the deportation policy corrosive to the New Zealand-Australia relationship and was there any decision today to shift on the policy?
PRIME MINISTER: I take it that’s a question to me. The Australian Government's policy is very clear - we deport non-citizens who have committed crimes in Australia against our community. This policy is applied not specific to one country, but to any country whose citizens are here. You commit a crime here, if convicted, once you have done your time, we send you home. That's what the Australian the policy is and that policy is framed in Australia's national interests and we would have no objection to any country, anywhere, who would apply the same rule in terms of Australian citizens who commit crimes in other places. We would think that was totally understandable and we wouldn't take any offence.
JOURNALIST: You will not be changing the policy?
PRIME MINISTER: No.
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Look, I have been absolutely clear - this is corrosive to our relationship and I have shared privately what I have shared publicly today with PM Morrison. We are not arguing that Australia should not have a deportation policy. They should. We do as well. What we're asking for is a reciprocal arrangement. New Zealand does not deport those that we consider for all intents and purposes to have established themselves as New Zealanders. We only ask that Australia does the same and the Prime Minister used a key word in his reference just now - he said that after they have served their time he sends them "home". The example I used demonstrates that we have countless who have no home in New Zealand, they have no network, they have grown up in Australia. That is their home and that is where they should stay.
PRIME MINISTER: Melissa?
JOURNALIST: [Inaudible] clearly this issue of deportation is a very big sticking point in the relationship. We have heard strong language from you, Prime Minister Ardern, and pretty strong language from you, Prime Minister Morrison. How can the relationship stay as strong as you both claim it to be when there is this underlying issue that there seems to be no way to resolve?
PRIME MINISTER: There is one simple word and that's respect. Our countries respect each other. We respect our sovereignty of each country to make rules that are in the best interests in the view of their governments and that those are done in the national interests. I would totally expect that the New Zealand government would always make decisions in their national interest and would take no exception to their sovereign right to do so. Australia will do the same thing. I respect the positions that are put forward by Prime Minister Ardern but in our government's view, that is not in Australia's national interest to not deport non-citizens who have committed crimes in Australia. As I stressed, we deport non-citizens. New Zealanders, who come here, people who were born in New Zealand, they have the opportunity to become citizens, to become residents, and then become citizens, as countries and nationals come here from all around the world and one of our greatest days is when Australians are sworn in for the first time as citizens and they have come from all around the world. Kiwis become citizens, Indians become citizens, Chinese nationals become citizens and when you become a citizen, well, you have joined the club and if you violate our laws at that point, then that is on our watch and Australia has to take care of those situations, but if you're a non-citizen, our very clear view and our government is well-known for our clear views when it comes to issues of immigration and border security, if you have committed a crime and you're not a citizen of Australia, then you have no right to stay.
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Oh you want it from both? Look I absolutely agree with Prime Minister Morrison that our relationship is based on respect and we have - we do have a respectful relationship and that adds strength to it but a value that New Zealanders also share with Australians are notions of fairness and I draw a distinction that unlike other countries that when they migrate into New Zealand or Australia, citizenship is treated differently. You know when you travel from abroad outside of New Zealand into Australia that you have to go through a particular process to have rights and obligations similar to other Australians. Those rules historically have not applied between us. Which is why we have a cohort of individuals in Australia who have grown up believing they are Australians. Who consider themselves Australians because that has not been determined by a piece of paper, but by their experience in this country and for some, it will be a shock to find themselves deported to a country they do not know as their own. So, yes, respect is absolutely a founding principle and will continue to be a founding principle of our relationship. We just are invoking the simple principle of fairness.
PRIME MINISTER: I think we have a New Zealand question.
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Yes. Quick indication of… oh sorry, Brian?
JOURNALIST: Prime Ministers did you discuss climate change and what do you each make of the other’s climate change policy with bringing down emissions?
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Look, both PM Morrison and myself are very clear on the different domestic policies that we each have. We understand and have knowledge of each other's policies. Where our discussion points often coalesce around climate change is how that is playing out in the Pacific and our dialogue with the Pacific, so one of the things I did today was relay some conversations that I've had in recent times with Pacific Island leaders, and an ongoing discussion that we've had as part of the Pacific Island Forum but these are ongoing discussions that we have at this level.
PRIME MINISTER: We respect each other's sovereignty to set those policies in our own countries and to pursue the commitments that we have made. We're both signatories to the Paris Agreement, we both made commitments under that agreement and we both intend to meet them and beat them, I'm sure, just as we have around the Kyoto agreement and so we share in the international participation on those goals but Prime Minister Ardern is right, when we come together, much of our discussion on these issues focuses on the region in which we have special responsibilities to our whanau, to our vuvale and throughout the Pacific region. The participation and Australia in particular has over the last several years we have invested some $300 million in supporting climate resilience throughout the Pacific and at the recent Pacific Island Forum Australia committed a further $500 million to those projects. We look forward to continuing to work with New Zealand where they are also supporting those types of projects throughout the region.
JOURNALIST: So you don’t [inaudible] each other over domestic climate change policies?
PRIME MINISTER: Why would we?
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: We each know each other's policies. New Zealand's taken its position. Australia have taken theirs and we discuss the expectations on both of us that the Pacific rightly has of both of us.
PRIME MINISTER: Both countries understand the need to take action on climate change. That's not an issue that's in dispute between our governments or our countries. We understand it. We are both seeking to take action. Yep?
JOURNALIST: Greg Norrington from the Australian Newspaper, Prime Minister Ardern, further on climate, how can your government pursue meaningful policy on climate change when you exclude agriculture which is your country’s largest emitter, and to Mr Morrison, how can Australia with Australia’s great friend New Zealand, have a meaningful discussion about climate change when it seems that on the other side of the Tasman, agriculture is off the table?
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Well I’ll correct you there, in fact we -
JOURNALIST: I know that there’s a formula, I realise that.
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Well, actually, the thing I'm going to correct you on is that actually we're on track to become at this stage the first country in the world who will have at farm by farm level, a pricing mechanism for agricultural emissions. We've set our ourselves this - the goal by 2025 that we’ll have a mechanism in place to measure and price at a farm by farm level. In our view, that is the most direct way that we can incentivise a reduction in emissions within our agricultural community. The thing that I'm very proud of is that we have done that collectively and collaboratively with our agricultural and primary sector leaders. That's a world first and it is world-leading. I'm very proud of it.
PRIME MINISTER: The Australian Government is committed to our Paris 2030 goal and we have a man to achieve it. At the last election, some $3 billion was invested in the Climate Solutions Fund to ensure that we were addressing the issues that enable us to reduce emissions. Our emissions have fallen by 13.1% on 2005 levels, already and so that gets us slightly over halfway to our 2030 target right now. On top of that, we will comfortably meet and beat our Kyoto commitments with policies that we set out a decade ago before we came to government. We will beat that by 411 million tonnes, which is about 80% of Australia's annual emissions to give you a sense of the scale of that overachievement. Now, as you look out into the future, that is why to meet our goal, we're following the technology - not taxation path - following a path that would see us invest together with Japan and state governments some half a billion dollars in hydrogen technology, investing billions of dollars in our pumped hydro arrangements in the Snowy, Snowy 2.0 as it’s known, the investments that we are putting in to transmission lines and in particular to connect the mainland to Tasmania and the Battery of the Nation project which is another large-scale pumped hydro project, which provides the firming capacity, in particular, for the record investments that we've had in renewable energy in Australia. Our renewable investment in Australia has been at record levels and we welcome that. And so when we look forward, we seek to reduce emissions, as we are, and we seek to ensure that we protect and keep the jobs, that we don't put electricity prices up. That we don't put taxes on Australians to meet those goals, and, finally, that we understand the pressures that exist in rural and regional parts of our countries and the industries they rely on. New Zealand and Australia aren't the same. We have much in common, as people, but our geography and our lands and our economies are extremely different and I commend Prime Minister Ardern for recognising that as they have set to put in place their policies when it comes to addressing their commitments and she's outlined some of those to you in relation to the agricultural sector. So, it is important to think about the structure of your economy, to think about how you might meet the commitments that you make. Having a plan is the important thing. The target is the outcome, but the plan is what actually makes the difference.
JOURNALIST: To both Prime Ministers, I’d like a response to it, um going back to our Prime Minister’s contention don’t export your problems, does the Australian Government feel in any way responsible for example the Comanchero gang that have become established since this deportation policy came into effect and is causing havoc in parts of New Zealand, and secondly Brenton Tarrant the man who is accused of the Christchurch Mosque shootings, would you be happy for him if he’s convicted to be deported to Australia to serve out his time?
PRIME MINISTER: Let me deal with the second question first and I want to deal with this very sensitively, because this is a matter that's before the courts in New Zealand and there is nothing I would want to say or do here and I'm sure the Prime Minister would agree, that would any way compromise that process. That's an incredibly important process. And I want to commend all of those who have been involved in that process, involved in the justice process that is underway there. But without talking specifically about that case, the principle here is that where an Australian citizen, anywhere in the world, whether in New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States, anywhere in the world responsible for committing a crime, particularly one as grievous as that, well I would expect the same rules to apply that Australia applies to citizens of other countries who commit crimes in our country. It is true that we have deported non-citizens to countries all around the world. Particularly to the United Kingdom as well and those deportations have involved people who only came to Australia when they were 1 or 2 years old out of the United Kingdom, and they are deported in the same way as any other nation's citizens are under Australia's policy. So, our policy is not directed to any one country or any one nationality whatsoever. It is a statement of Australia's immigration and border laws that if people who are not citizens commit crimes in Australia, then they have violated the terms of being in this country, and after they have served their sentence, then they will return to their country of citizenship.
JOURNALIST: In terms of the alleged Christchurch gun man?
THE RT HON. JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Look in terms of the case that’s currently before the courts, what I am mindful of is that that is the most important process right now. Seeing through that part, in that very important part of our justice process and thereafter I’ll be quite mindful of what victims families will be seeking, and it’s not clear to me yet what their hopes are, but that for me is a really key factor in any decision making post the justice system being seen through.
PRIME MINISTER: Mark.
JOURNALIST: Prime Minister you said in your comments that you wanted to send people back home, how do you send someone home when blind Freddy can see that their home is here?
PRIME MINISTER: We can’t have two classes of citizens in this country. Those who have, were born in Australia or who have become citizens through our formal process, citizens of Australia enjoy the rights and entitlements and obligations of being citizens in Australia, no-one else. Anyone else who doesn’t hold the title of citizen of Australia does not get a special deal. Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been here, it doesn’t matter whether you turned up yesterday or many years ago. If you are not a citizen of Australia, and you violate our laws, then under my government’s policies, you will not be allowed to remain in Australia. You will be returned to the citizenship, nationality, which is what I define as your home. Thank you.
